What is America's Future?.......Destruction?

[Bostech]

Why am I getting mail?
I got nothing to do with this,except a joke.

[NotNow]

Interesting tidbits of information.  Of course none of them have anything to do with the topic.  What does our call for a more principle grounded and efficient nation have do with the lecture that you posted?  Do you really believe that just calling my points "gibberish" and then invoking slavery and women's rights is a valid method of debate?  Really?  You are rihgt when you say that you don't know what I am talking about.  On that we agree.  

So you really support a $14 TRILLION dollar national debt?  Because the country needs a CREDIT RATING?  Really?

You believe that the current rates of high school drop outs, teen pregnancies, murders of young men, and college education are good?  You think that the number of single parent families is good for America?  Your think that more Americans feel safer in their homes now than in the past?  You are confident that the removal of "religion" from all public venues such as Nativity Scenes or bible verses is good for America?  You believe that our Federal government is "on the right track" and it respects the individual rights of the people?  You think that our Federal, State, and local governments are wise caretakers of our tax dollars and their judgement in their use is wise and careful?  I could go on and on, but we are boring the other posters here.  

This is not "alarmist".  This is common sense.  Something that our politicians, judges, and apparently many of our citizens lost long ago.  I think it is time for the majority to speak up again and restore that common sence.

[heights unknown]

I love it; America, though it's falling, at its best!

Good old fashioned agreeing to disagree; nothing wrong with that.

Freedom of speech has always been a good, healthy thing in this country; and the whole nation will go down the tubes exercising that right.

God...(did I say that?), gotta love this country; love all of you, and always will love America.

Whatever happens happens.

"HU"

[heights unknown]

Why am I getting mail?
I got nothing to do with this,except a joke.

Grease stains, no problem.  Grass stains, no problem.  No harm done. If you've got amnesia, then I have it too.  So what the heck, we both need to be on medication to get rid of our little alhzeimers problem.  Nothing wrong with that.

"HU"

[NotNow]

NN.  you supported the policies which led to the 14 trillion dollar debt.  I opposed them.  Really?  If you look at the table below, you will see that the National Debt is expected to DOUBLE during President Obama's term.  Remember this is after President Bush's 80% increase in the public debt during his two terms.  This is a lot more than just war spending.  How can you justify this, Republican or Democrat?

Year Gross Debt in Billions [10] as % of GDP
1910 2.6 n/a
1920 25.9 n/a
1930 16.2 n/a
1940 43.0 52.4
1950 257.4 94.1
1960 290.5 56.1
1970 380.9 37.6
1980 909.0 33.3
1990 3,206.3 55.9
2000 5,628.7 58.0
2001 5,769.9 57.4
2002 6,198.4 59.7
2003 6,760.0 62.6
2004 7,354.7 63.9
2005 7,905.3 64.6
2006 8,451.4 65.0
2007 8,950.7 65.6
2008 9,985.8 70.2
2009 (est.) 12,867.5 90.4
2010 (est.) 14,456.3 98.1
2011 (est.) 15,673.9 101.0
2012 (est.) 16,565.7 100.6
2013 (est.) 17,440.2 99.7
2014 (est.) 18,350.0 99.8


You called me a bunch of names when I pointed this out to you a few years ago.  I don't remember calling you any names.  I do find it amusing that YOU of all people feign offense from being called a name.  You are the most prolific name caller on this site.  You generalize people into bogus categories based on their political beliefs or even their religious or other personal beliefs. 

Your chicks have all come home to roost, and you own them.  The costs of the war, the costs of deregulation in the name of 'capitalism and freedom' when it was really in the cause of swindling and greed, The tax cuts for the wealthy that were supposed to produce economic engines of growth but instead produced nothing but bailouts and the importation of industry abroad.  You hate the unions and watched their power and wages get cut across the board to empower 'the men of industry' without ever once thinking it was killing the middle class in this country, and therefore all of the consumer spending.  My? chicks?  Really?  Aren't you the same guy who two weeks ago was chastising me for being a union member and being greedy?  Do you even think about what you are writing?

The pricetag for the policies you supported finally came due.  Thats not my fault man.  Again, you are categorizing people.  I opposed several policies of the Bush administration, almost always because of financial and constitutional concerns. I oppose many of the Obama administrations policies for the same reasons.  Which of those policies that will DOUBLE the national debt in the next three years do you oppose?

On the subject of morality, well....

I think we are becoming a more moral nation.  I hope that we continue to be become even more moral than we presently are.

I hope we feed all our hungry, provide care to all of our sick.  I hope we become once again that shining City on the Hill that we once were before the jackals dragged the body politic down.

I hope that we evolve our social policy and education to the point that an unwanted pregnancy is so rare that it is shocking, I hope that we stop poisoning our own environment, I hope that we find a way to live in an international peace which deals swiftly and justly based on laws rather than hatreds.  Yeah, we all hhope for these things.  But what are we doing[  to bring them about?  That, StephenDare!, is the point of this thread./i]

But I think we are getting there.  I don't think we are.  I suppose the we will see what changes occur over the next few years. 

This is apparently where we differ.  Oh, we differ on MUCH more than just this.

I think the future is amazing, beautiful and bright.  And you are basing this on...what?  Your past performance?  The spectacular successes of the Obama administration over the last year? 

You apparently don't.  I'm not sure how you have missed my feelings in this area.  I agree with HU that our country needs to find it's center again.  It is the responsibiity of the citizens to be responsible and to hold our leaders accountable.  If we do that, the future is bright.  If not, then I fear for the future of our country.

[mtraininjax]

Not Now - Good info, I find the following as most interesting:

1940 43.0 52.4
1950 257.4 94.1

1980 909.0 33.3
1990 3,206.3 55.9

To see what WWII did to our spending. Something they never teach you in 8th grade (for me at least STJR) in American History. Nor that Reagan spent our way into the 90s, creating the similar banking issues with the Resolution Trust Corp.

Well we can't continue to spend, that is for sure, or maybe we can and then we can use the paper dollars as wallpaper.

[heights unknown]

Now that we've looked at the theological, biblical, and religious side of what could or might happen to America (and I understand some or most disagree with that side of the coin), let's take a look at what futurologists, secularists, and others that don't believe that America will end from "the hand of God" so to speak.  I myself believe our end will be supernatural, but let's take a close look at what others are saying.  Before we do, it is interesting that despite that huge problems the country is now encountering, many still think and firmly believe America has at least 50 to 100 years or more on the books before peetering out.  Here are the links:


http://www.slate.com/id/2223962/

http://www.slate.com/id/2224425/

http://www.slate.com/id/2223210/landing/1

Enjoy.

"HU"

[Johnny]

As already discussed elsewhere on this site, the majority of abortions are performed on self described fundamentalist or evangelical women.  These poor girls, unfortunately are also the ones most likely to be insulated from any real sex education and the numbers bear out the harmful side effects.  If we can convince the evangelicals to stop shaming their daughters into abortions, we might be able to make a real dent into this practice.

Can you share the thread that this was discussed? I assume there is something backing up these claims within the thread? You know, just b/c they identify as a certain religion, certainly doesn't qualify as evangelical women.

[NotNow]

NN, YOu supported the massive trillion dollar tax cuts of the bush administration at the same time that you supported simultaneous, unprovoked wars in the middle east and the hiring of mercs at 6 times the rate we were spending on our own soldiers.  Are you trying to distance yourself from all that now?  It is an interesting contrast, how could I support the $1.3 TRILLION dollar tax cut and then argue against the $1 TRILLION dollar health bill?  Easy answer...tax cuts LEAVE the money where it was originally made, with the businessman.  There it will be reinvested in proven, successful enterprises.  

The wars in the Middle East were NOT unprovoked, to flatly state differently is more than just disingenuous.  

I have consistently argued against the use of private companies in war zones.  I have consistently argued that these logistics, protective services, and intelligence services should be taken on by military personnel.  However, if the only personnel that are trained and available to protect the American are private contractors, then hire the private contractors until trained and competent soldiers can be stood up.  I defended these companies against unproven, unwarranted atacks by reactionary demigogs though.

How do you justify the expected doubling of the debt by this administration?  Are you just going with "Bush did it"?  I thought you were opposed to throwing money at the failed financial institutions and car manufacturers?

And I was not chastising you for being a union member.  I actually congratulate you for it.  I simply wish that you thought that other workers should have the same rights to unionize for the same reasons and ultimate benefit as yourself.  "But wasnt your private insurance guaranteed because your union fraternal order, negotiated enough of the public taxpayer money to be able to afford it? "
"And when you chunk in your line of work (sponsored by The State,) your retirement pension (not even included in the communist manifesto but included in Roosevelts second bill of rights) and your fraternal police order with its Labor Union Method of collective bargaining, you really are redder than most.  "
You have criticised the FOP on numerous occaisions.  You are making up (again) that I oppose any rights to unionize.  But then, you make up a lot of this stuff, don't you?

And I do think we are moving towards curing the conditions that I described.

Especially the unwanted pregnancies part.

We are finally chunking these stupid abstinence only programs, and seeing the benefits.  Your source for this statement?  

As already discussed elsewhere on this site, the majority of abortions are performed on self described fundamentalist or evangelical women.  These poor girls, unfortunately are also the ones most likely to be insulated from any real sex education and the numbers bear out the harmful side effects.  If we can convince the evangelicals to stop shaming their daughters into abortions, we might be able to make a real dent into this practice.  Again, your source?  Are you making things up again?  Your hatred of religion is coming through again, but...it does fit in with your political philosophy, doesn't it?

Crime is in a generational cycle (see Strauss and Howe) and it is on the downswing for the realigning generational constellation.  Strauss and Howe did not say that.  Their theory of recurring generational behaviors does not account for racial or international disparity.

If we can get through the next few dark years (Howe and Strauss predict another 6 years of turbulence) on the other end of it we should emerge with a dynamically improved world.  So you are extrapolating the generational theories of Strauss and Howe to predict "an improved world"?  Don't you think that you should ask them if that's what they would gleen from their work?  

According to their formulations, there were two possible generational outcomes as we passed through this crisis.  A turn to fascism and chaos or a pulling together spontaneously of the civic order and another golden age like the 50s.  I think we passed the crucible when we turned away from Bush Era governmental theories personally, although really who can tell?  Wow!  I am shocked that it is....BUSH'S FAULT!  I am impressed that you feel confident enough to predict the future StephenDare!, I don't think the author's that you source would be so confident.

I think Americans are about to go through great sufferings and misery as a result of the financial fallout of the past 6 years, and I think the shape of our country is going to change geographically.  There is a tough one, yep, I agree.  I would be interested in hearing what "geographic" changes in our country you would predict, seriously.

But I also believe that there is an essential goodness to our nation and that we have a tendency to pull together and solve our problems.  There is a can do attitude to our people and our heritage that has yet to fail us, and if I have faith in anything, I have faith in that tendency of our country to pull off a last minute hat trick.  We agree on this point, we do not agree on what our Federal, State, and local governments role is in this process.

The fact that all the seeds of our recovery and the salvation of our species have already been planted gives me additional reason for optimism.  That sounds suspiciously like faith.  You better be careful or you will get thrown out of the Commie Club!  

[Lunican]

Year Gross Debt in Billions [10] as % of GDP
...
2001 5,769.9 57.4
2002 6,198.4 59.7
2003 6,760.0 62.6
2004 7,354.7 63.9
2005 7,905.3 64.6
2006 8,451.4 65.0
2007 8,950.7 65.6
2008 9,985.8 70.2
2009 (est.) 12,867.5 90.4
2010 (est.) 14,456.3 98.1
2011 (est.) 15,673.9 101.0
2012 (est.) 16,565.7 100.6
2013 (est.) 17,440.2 99.7
2014 (est.) 18,350.0 99.8

I didn't realize that Bush had increased our Debt as a percentage of GDP by 40%. Obama is only predicted to increase it by 9.4%.

[NotNow]

Interesting simplification in order to advance a political party.  Some of you guys would fit right in in D.C.  Can ANYONE agree that we can not continue down this financial road, despite our political bent or what party is in control of congress or the executive?  Or do we just continue to shout BUSH! OBAMA! at each other as our country falls down around us?   For Christ's sake for a bunch of self described "intellectuals" the lack of clarity here is astounding sometimes.

[Bostech]

98%?
Can we say US will bankrupt in 2010?

[heights unknown]

Interesting simplification in order to advance a political party.  Some of you guys would fit right in in D.C.  Can ANYONE agree that we can not continue down this financial road, despite our political bent or what party is in control of congress or the executive?  Or do we just continue to shout BUSH! OBAMA! at each other as our country falls down around us?   For Christ's sake for a bunch of self described "intellectuals" the lack of clarity here is astounding sometimes.

Couple of things I haven't heard anyone mention; We are in debt to China big time. If China ever calls in those loans, we're screwed.  Many other nations have different types of investments within our financial and stock markets which assists in propping up our dollar and other arms of our financial and banking system; if they ever withdraw those investments, we're screwed there.  One more; if all nations agree to move to another type of monetary system other than the dollar, it would also send our banking and financial systems, along with the economy into a tailspin; and there's talk everyday amongst the nations of doing this because America has become financially irresponsible, and any one nation's currency is not the answer in these modern times; if they do this, we're done.

It is possible that any one of these can happen without our knowledge and one day or morning we will have an economic and stock market and financial disaster/crash on our hands.

Heights Unknown

[Ocklawaha]

http://www.youtube.com/v/-p-ALLAeR50&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca"></param><param%20name= 

http://www.youtube.com/v/1aPNcUJuiLY&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca"></param><param%20name=



December 23, 2012...

TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK...

http://www.youtube.com/v/J8QV91dp99U&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca"></param><param%20name=

OCKLAWAHA

[Bostech]

Did Fox News just said it is just "tactic that puts a fear in a lot of people"
Man,if Nazis had TV station it would be just like Fox,including all the blonde chicks and putting word German in front of everything.
More scarier then solar radiation and asteroids is ..DEBT.
14 trillion dollars debt and raising means you will be in deep s$it,working to pay interest and putting entire country in slave position.
Hopefully China doesnt stop borrowing money to US.
Communist are new capitalist.


Someone predicted 20 years ago that China will become new superpower,West will decline and China will rise economically.