A Closer Look at the Transportation Center

[CS Foltz]

Well tufsu1........somehow I missed railroad tracks at the new transportation center! I mean we are showing bus's using it.........so whats the deal, do you take a bus to get to trains? Or are you supposed to use the $kyway, if its running, to get to train? I can see where there are plenty of parking spaces for JTA and FDOT and I guess I have to assume FHP would use the same secure parking area, but what about visitors? They are supposed to park somewhere and use BRT to get there? Access to any rail system is not taken into account and with a lack of expansion possibility's I can't see where it would be? I guess we get to use cab's for CRT (Cab Rapid Transit) for movement at the surface! With no expansion possibilities where would rail go? Rail is already at the Prime Osburn and I am a firm believer in using what we have now rather than trying to fund something that may happen!

[stjr]

It is indeed a bit humorous, ironic, and mostly very sad and outrageous, that the so called builders and empowered "promoters" of mass transit would  hold up, as an example of how to avoid it altogether, their very own brand new HQ's featuring the best employee parking facilities downtown has to offer, dead center of a brand new, taxpayer financed, intermodal mass transit hub.  You just can't make up the stupidity and lameness of our fearless leaders in this City sometimes.

[tufsu1]

Well tufsu1........somehow I missed railroad tracks at the new transportation center!

yes you did...if you look at the whole plans for the center you will see the tracks on the south side of the Prime Osborn w/ pedestrian bridges connecting to them....Phase 1 doesn't have anything direct (other than skyway) because rail isn't ready for implementation yet (see Lake's posts).

[Ocklawaha]

Bangkok's Transit Center, ALL UNDER ONE ROOF.

Well tufsu1........somehow I missed railroad tracks at the new transportation center! I mean we are showing bus's using it.........so whats the deal, do you take a bus to get to trains?

A. YES, that IS the idea, you take buses to Commuter Trains to Skyways to Streetcars to Water Taxis to Taxi Cabs to BRT to Express Bus to Amtrak to Skyways to Water Taxis to Streetcars to Taxi Cabs to BRT to Commuter Trains to Express Buses to Amtrak... Got it? This is how it should be, Good Transit equals a Good Mix + Matrix of routes. Transportation Center should make them all available from one waiting room, one or two Concourses, and shared infrastructure.

What JTA has wrong, is the fault of the COJ not moving a completely disfunctional Convention Center out of the Jacksonville Terminal area so that they can put all of their design elements into a single street address. There is NOTHING wrong with the elements (though some hate the building style) but each unit is well planned. It's the way they are sewn all over LaVilla with 4-5 blocks between Intercity Bus and Amtrak, not to mention at least 4 flights of (probable broken escalators) thus completely defeating the whole idea of "CENTER."


CLEVELAND'S CONCEPT STATION, ALL MODES IN ONE SPOT!

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.44 [gcide]:

Center \Cen"ter\, noun [F. centre, fr. L. centrum, fr. round which a circle is described, fr. ? to prick, goad.]

1. A point equally distant from the extremities of a line, figure, or body, or from all parts of the circumference of a circle; the middle point or place.

2. The middle or central portion of anything.

3. A principal or important point of concentration; the nucleus around which things are gathered or to which they tend; an object of attention, action, or force; as, a center of attaction.

{Center of a curve} or {Center of a surface} (Geom.) (a) A point such that every line drawn through the point and terminated by the curve or surface is bisected at the point. (b) The fixed point of reference in polar co["o]rdinates. See {Co["o]rdinates}.

{Center of gyration} (Mech.), that point in a rotating body at which the whole mass might be concentrated (theoretically) without altering the resistance of the intertia of the body to angular acceleration or retardation.

{Center of motion}, the point which remains at rest, while all the other parts of a body move round it.

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.44 [gcide]:

Center \Cen"ter\, Centre \Cen"tre\, verb (used with an object)

1. To place or fix in the center or on a central point. --Milton.

2. To collect to a point; to concentrate.

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.44 [gcide]:

Center \Cen"ter\, Centre \Cen"tre\ verb (used without an object) [imp. & p. p. {Centered} or {Centred}; p. pr. & vb. n. {Centering} or {Centring}.]

1. To be placed in a center; to be central.

2. To be collected to a point; to be concentrated; to rest on, or gather about, as a center.

From WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]:

center

adjective

1: equally distant from the extremes [syn: {center(a)}, {halfway}, {middle(a)}, {midway}]

noun

1: an area that is approximately central within some larger region; "it is in the center of town"; "they ran forward into the heart of the struggle"; "they were in the eye of the storm" [syn: {centre}, {middle}, {heart}, {eye}]

2: a building dedicated to a particular activity; "they were raising money to build a new center for research" [syn: {centre}]

3: a point equidistant from the ends of a line or the extremities of a figure [syn: {centre}, {midpoint}]

4: the object upon which interest and attention focuses; "his stories made him the center of the party" [syn: {center of attention}]

5: a place where some particular activity is concentrated; "they received messages from several centers" [syn: {centre}]

verb

1: center upon; "Her entire attention centered on her children"; "Our day revolved around our work" [syn: {focus on}, {center on}, {revolve around}, {revolve about}, {concentrate on}]

2: move into the center; "That vase in the picture is not centered" [syn: {centre}]

WANNA HAVE SOME FUN? TRY AND MAKE ANY OF THE ABOVE DEFINITIONS FIT THE JRTC PLANS AS PRESENTED, TO THE LETTER! GOOD LUCK! YOUR GOING TO NEED IT!


Leeds Certified Transportation Center ONE BUILDING in Tempe AZ

Or are you supposed to use the $kyway, if its running, to get to train?

A. YES!

I can see where there are plenty of parking spaces for JTA and FDOT and I guess I have to assume FHP would use the same secure parking area, but what about visitors? They are supposed to park somewhere and use BRT to get there?

Both options are provided for, parking at the Transportation Center and of course the option of using park and ride facilities in more distant areas and using transit into downtown. Again, they did a good job on elements.

Access to any rail system is not taken into account and with a lack of expansion possibility's I can't see where it would be? I guess we get to use cab's for CRT (Cab Rapid Transit) for movement at the surface! With no expansion possibilities where would rail go? Rail is already at the Prime Osburn and I am a firm believer in using what we have now rather than trying to fund something that may happen!

Actually we have rail along McCoys Creek already, and if the COJ hadn't gotten stupid and built the damn Lee Street Viaduct way too low, we would still have two platforms and 4 boarding tracks in place. As it is South of the Station-Convention Center Fence, there is room for 5 tracks and platforms. Between the South wall of the 1919 station-Convention Center and the Fence, WITHIN the current parking area, (left front of the Station) there is room for another 5 tracks and platforms. So as a terminal, we can still have 10 tracks of the USDOT recommended 12, but we've got to tear down the viaduct AGAIN and raise it from 16 feet to 24 feet.

The Consultant that did the plan must have been smoking crack when he/she decided that we should dig a "tub" and put the tracks down in it so they could pass under the bridge. I asked them if they knew that was a flood plain which destroyed the original station in a tropical storm circa 1895. NOPE! Don't know the history. The "Tubs" would also involve wrecking the underground concourses/tunnels from the station to the tracks and require an expensive overhead walkway system.

Worse? Yeah, he/she was SNORTING PURE COKE when they decided that the Southside trains would use the current FEC area platforms, and North and Westside trains would use a new yard and platforms where the old Post Office once stood, ending at the Courtyard that was once the original Union Station alongside Bay Street.
Just imagine you live in Oceanway and work in Bay Meadows... DAMN! "JUST SAY NOSE TO DRUGS!"


DONE RIGHT THE STATION SHOULD ANCHOR TRUE DEVELOPMENT DOWNTOWN, DONE WRONG... NOTHING!

It is indeed a bit humorous, ironic, and mostly very sad and outrageous, that the so called builders and empowered "promoters" of mass transit would  hold up, as an example of how to avoid it altogether, their very own brand new HQ's featuring the best employee parking facilities downtown has to offer, dead center of a brand new, taxpayer financed, intermodal mass transit hub.  You just can't make up the stupidity and lameness of our fearless leaders in this City sometimes.

Again, there is nothing wrong with the elements as designed, they just need to be moved and arranged where the Prime Osbourne Convention HALL AREA is today, and the old Post Office once stood. MJ has a complete design using the same elements. Something I designed back in 1976, and updated for the MJ BOYZ, Lakelander took it home on the back of a napkin and created a rendering using the SAME buildings, same design, same everything (except the Greyhound Station, which I think should be an Intercity UNION bus Station, with at least 3 carriers recruited to join our new Terminal. *Psst. INCENTIVES COJ, *INCENTIVES!) using space currently taken by the Morphidite excuse for a Convention Hall.  It's really not about an office building as much as it is about order in the new "center," if indeed they even build a "CENTER."  (I added the definitions for those JTA consultants who are spatially challenged.)  Getting the offices out of the Myrtle Avenue Bus Yard, opens the right-of-way to rebuild the "S" line into Springfield, for Northside Commuter Rail or LRT.


WHAT SAN MARCO AT ATLANTIC SHOULD LOOK LIKE, JUST ADD BRT AND SKYWAY.


OCKLAWAHA

[Coolyfett]

wow this site is growing! the lid is heavy n the water is boiling!! Pressure get Progress, more urban minded members here, less turtles. Impressive...most impressive.

[Ocklawaha]

wow this site is growing! the lid is heavy n the water is boiling!! Pressure get Progress, more urban minded members here, less turtles. Impressive...most impressive.

Good to see you back brother!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Ock............I understand the concept of many types of transportation coming together to form a single mass transit system but disagree not only with the where, but the sequencing! The Phase One, as tufsu1 the magnificent so pointedly stated is but the start of a whole new taxpayer funded edifice! Not only is the location kinda missplaced but so is what is being done. I agree with your point as to the Prime Osburn being the one! Not only are rail track's in place already, but the entire second floor is just about empty and just calling out to be used! Phase 1 is about $60 Million of our hard earned tax dollars being spent on our behalf by misguided uniformed and ignorant people who are just bound and determined to have the latest and greatest! Kinda reminds me of the new white elephant ......"Court House" cost @ $350 Million (bet it ends up more....any takers?) The old Court House and the Annex could have been refurbished and upgraded for probably about what the voters approved @ $190 Million or less! I have to ask.........why not use the Prime Osburn for what it was designed to do? Why not upgrade it to current standards and make that into the new Transportation Center? It was the Train Transportation Center at one time and would allow more options for future expansions in four different directions...........five if you count up! So what is the deal.............why a new and unexciting design when we have something that already fits the bill with a minimun of our tax dollars!

[Charles Hunter]

The HUGE stumbling block to using Union Terminal for its intended transportation purpose - the City's refusal to consider relocating (or closing) the Convention-less Center.  JTA and FDOT have no control over this city-owned facility, and had to design the JTC with the mandate that the CC wasn't moving and leave room for expansion of the CC on this site.

[Ocklawaha]

The HUGE stumbling block to using Union Terminal for its intended transportation purpose - the City's refusal to consider relocating (or closing) the Convention-less Center.  JTA and FDOT have no control over this city-owned facility, and had to design the JTC with the mandate that the CC wasn't moving and leave room for expansion of the CC on this site.

All of us "inside" the story know the City know what we are dealing with. "NEANDERTHAL'S" is a kind word for them. In the words of a infamous drill Sargent, "You people are not a mob, your not smart enough to be a mob. Mobs have leaders, you people don't have leaders, you're a HERD! So since I'm waxing historic here, "Where the Sun now stands in the sky, I shall call them a herd of Neanderthals forever!" (Apology's to Chief Joseph)

The crime is, can we derail their plans long enough to get some leadership in City Hall? We need three things to make this happen, MEDIA, MEDIA and MEDIA. Along with negative attention comes a promise you will NEVER BE REELECTED, and WE WANT VISIONARY THINKERS AND DOERS!

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

All of us "inside" the story know the City know what we are dealing with. "NEANDERTHAL'S" is a kind word for them. [/b]

Ock, no need to insult Neanderthals just because our public officials can't add 1 +1 to get anything other than a big "0".   

[CS Foltz]

stjr............City could not add with their collective shoes off! City of Jacksonville has had no vision, plan or any imagination for quite a few years  now! I look at the so-called Projects that have taken place over , say the last five years, and have to ask ...........have any come to completion? We appear to form "Committee's for review" or "Discussion" at the drop of a hat, but have yet to complete much of anything! Infact, about the only thing the City has managed to do..........is spend, spend, spend! I am really glad to see we have bottomless pockets to pay for all of the mistakes that the City has seen fit to saddle the taxpayers with! I mean we have AIMO's, all 229 of them at about $27 Million dollars a year and think just what could be done with that amount of money for the public and not the GOB Network.............I mean we could even afford to do some more "Studies" to prove the JTA is a bunch of know nothing concrete loving light pole huggers that are just concerned about their little fiefdom and what they want! I say let them eat cake........make the Prime Osburn back into what it was before the stupid City made it into what it is now..........a stand alone edifice, no shopping, no motels/hotels and no transportation! Unless you count CRT (Cab Rapid Transit) to go anywhere......every Convention Center needs a grand view of wasted useless monorail system.......maybe we could persuade Rat City to procure it?

[tufsu1]

Ock............I understand the concept of many types of transportation coming together to form a single mass transit system but disagree not only with the where, but the sequencing! The Phase One, as tufsu1 the magnificent so pointedly stated is but the start of a whole new taxpayer funded edifice! Not only is the location kinda missplaced but so is what is being done. I agree with your point as to the Prime Osburn being the one! Not only are rail track's in place already, but the entire second floor is just about empty and just calling out to be used! Phase 1 is about $60 Million of our hard earned tax dollars being spent on our behalf by misguided uniformed and ignorant people who are just bound and determined to have the latest and greatest! Kinda reminds me of the new white elephant ......"Court House" cost @ $350 Million (bet it ends up more....any takers?) The old Court House and the Annex could have been refurbished and upgraded for probably about what the voters approved @ $190 Million or less! I have to ask.........why not use the Prime Osburn for what it was designed to do? Why not upgrade it to current standards and make that into the new Transportation Center? It was the Train Transportation Center at one time and would allow more options for future expansions in four different directions...........five if you count up! So what is the deal.............why a new and unexciting design when we have something that already fits the bill with a minimun of our tax dollars!

wow...the magnificent...thanks CS...but more importantly, do I have a vision or a plan?

[Ocklawaha]

All of us "inside" the story know the City know what we are dealing with. "NEANDERTHAL'S" is a kind word for them. [/b]

Ock, no need to insult Neanderthals just because our public officials can't add 1 +1 to get anything other than a big "0".  

Ooh, didn't think about THAT, y'all don't think I'll hear from GEICO do you? FYI, I understand one of the Cavemen has a place out by Mayo Clinic, or maybe PVB, FOR REAL!

Quote from: CS Foltz on Today at 07:14:46 PM
...I mean we could even afford to do some more "Studies" to prove the JTA is a bunch of know nothing concrete loving light pole huggers that are just concerned about their little fiefdom and what they want!

Sorry CS, got to correct that one. One need only travel on the Commodore Point Expressway, I-95 near I-295 South, and several other large segments of our "FREEway," to see these boys don't even know who to call for light poles! Or bulbs! Sucks to be in the dark.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Ock, I believe the GEICO caveman was actually at the Jags-St. Louis game this year for a halftime show.  If he lives here, that might explain why he was available.

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, I believe the GEICO caveman was actually at the Jags-St. Louis game this year for a halftime show.  If he lives here, that might explain why he was available.

Not exactly Transportation here, but they did invent the wheel! ...and they invented INVENTING!
There were 5 Cavemen, Jeff Daniel Phillips and Ben Weber played the two earliest cavemen. Actor John Lehr appears most frequently as the caveman. Other cavemen are played by Ben Wilson and Jim Rose. They all have pretty extensive bio's as actors, comedians, directors and writers. I'm not sure which is reputed to live or vacation here. I did find where they had/have been in downtown on several occasions, sporting events and such.

Which gives me an idea...

Since these guys are busy, we can't run one for Mayor, but Don Knotts, he could show Peyton how it's done! He is probably available and would do a great job, just doing whatever he does best.

What do you think? DON KNOTTS FOR MAYOR!

OCKLAWAHA