Jacksonville Transportation Center moves forward

[copperfiend]

yuck

[Ocklawaha]

I sort of like the architectural elements with one huge protest, where are the arches and towers?  Y'all need to go down to the original Union Station on Bay Street and check out the arches and trim. Looks like we got the economy model. This facility is no doubt designed to blend in, with the older building, but without those elements I think it falls short.

A super modern building next to that 1890/1919 station would like like a "Space Station in El Castillo De San Marcos." A glass and steel building is just not a good fit for LaVilla history, and the tiny bit left could be helped by a salute to our past. (Considering we bulldozed the whole section of town).

Curbside walls are going to radiate heat or cold, they'll make dandy sleeping locations for our homeless without other shelter, windows or glass doors are not inviting to these citizens.

http://www.youtube.com/v/L0F-5c7Me3I&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1
With BRT done right, check out those lanes, and Central Station, we're about to get our designing butts kicked.


Again, the station is scattered all over hell, which is a horrible concept. Considering they are likely to build this thing, imagine how it's going to sell with the public, or Amtrak? When the Convention Center closes and goes empty, we tear it down for more space (not the old railroad buildings just the giant Convention Halls) giving the whole area South of Bay Street that unique abandoned Jax look. Nothing like a view of piles of concrete and re-bar to really kick off your commute. Then we're going to realize that once again (Skyway) we went off with good intentions and a bad plan messing this up for another 30 years. Counting the distance to the railroad platforms from the planned Greyhound Station, via the serpentine elevated walkways is 5 blocks (2 South of Bay - 1 on Bay - 2 1/2 North). It is also up a 30' flight of stairs or broken escalator, down a 30' flight of stairs, up another 30' flight of stairs... no matter how you move from the rail side. If you'll compare this to the current walk from the 1919 station (Amtrak) to the classic Art Deco Greyhound Station, it's the SAME DISTANCE! Damn convenient, and worth of millions? There shouldn't be a stair in the whole transportation side of the Center, including the rail side. Mix this with a view of the "late Convention Center" rubble, and you get an idea of the mess we are creating.

We're planning a Bus Rapid Transit station for a system we can't afford and frankly don't want, at least as planned. On a hot August day, 100 degrees in the shade, people are going to realize there is NO SHADE. The walls will be stained with food, blood and God Knows What, and our City won't bother to maintain the appearance (it's for POOR BLACK PEOPLE). Walking through gum stains on the blistering sidewalks under a metal roof will offer no relief, but they're just Transit riders. When will the city realize it IS for "Black People," and they are US, we're all a poor black family in the eyes of City Hall, and 1950's planning. Welcome to the 21st century version of Jacksonville.

Nobody sent in a rush order to alter those plans for our streetcars, "stupid is as stupid does."  Let's change this element before we create the "Worlds Second Biggest Monument To Transportation Insanity."  Building or support for this, with unfinished (Convention) business, is just "Skyway Crazy."



OCKLAWAHA

[Captain Zissou]

BOOOOO!!!!!!!! (Throws breakfast at computer screen).

The best thing about this is bringing Amtrak closer to DT, so why wait until a later phase??  I think just about the same amount of people who ride the skyway will use this facility. The problem is getting to downtown, not moving around downtown once you're there.  They need to focus more on regional transit (commuter rail from St Auggie and Green Cove coming north and the airport coming south) and less on how big their new offices are.

Maybe that gigantic clock will help the buses stay on schedule....?

[jason_contentdg]

Ock, that's the one problem that I have when we try to make "copies" of these older buildings, a lot of times the money isn't there to do them the correct way with the details and the architectural elements that add to the aesthetics of those original buildings and what we end up with is a sad try at history.

[fsujax]

I have heard the designers did not want to detract from the historical Jacksonville Terminal by building something grander or larger.

[jason_contentdg]

^ So in other words, "It's good enough for Jacksonville."  Hate that.

[thelakelander]

I have heard the designers did not want to detract from the historical Jacksonville Terminal by building something grander or larger.

Interesting, what a cop out.  One could argue the design does detract from the historical terminal.  The terminal was designed with superior craftsmanship, detail and scale.  Regardless of the architectural style chosen, these design elements should still play a role in the new structure.  Anyway, no reason to get stressed out over it.  After all this is Jacksonville.  I never put my expectations up too high here when it comes to architectural design.  I've accepted the fact that, for the most part, we're pretty architecturally conservative and a decade behind most places of similar size.  Imo, its going to take a lot of thought provoking smaller private sector projects to change the overall mentality.

[hightowerlover]

awesome, it looks like a suburban middle school with a monorail ! ! 

[fsujax]

Yep. what a cop out. We will always be 10-15 years behind everyone until we have real change in this City.

[Bewler]

Now I have a question about that first rendering of the new transportation center. Is it going to be the cause of that ominous night sky of impending doom or will it rather act as a sanctuary from it?

[hightowerlover]

You will see in 2012 when it gets sucked into the ground

[Joe]

I agree with the general criticisms of the Transportation center. The Metrojacksonville alternative is a superior land use plan. The architecture looks like something that would have been built on UF's campus in the late 80s, early 90s.

That being said, I'm not nearly as riled-up as some of you appear to be. The office building is wedged between I-95 and two off-ramps. The renderings don't show how much the ramps will box it in. It essentially has zero practical street frontage, so the blank walls aren't the end of the world, even if they aren't ideal.

I'm sympathetic to the convention center and amtrak concerns, but that's indicative of a lack of leadership by the mayor and city council. It sucks, but there's nothing JTA can do about that. So given that they can't control what the mayor and city council do, I'm very glad that they're moving forward with this plan now - as opposed to waiting another 10-20 years before another administration gets their act together on a cohesive downtown plan. This plan in 2010 is still better than the chance at a superior plan in 2030.

Also, I like the retail and plaza on Johnson street. Lavilla's redevelopment has been so horribly bungled, that I'm glad when at least a couple block segments are developed with a little forethought. I think the biggest issue is just making sure that whatever is built on the opposite side of Johnson street will also have active uses, and not just be another blank wall or parking garage level.

Anyway, just trying to keep it positive here.

[tufsu1]

So again we've missed the opportunity to have an architectural landmark for the city where other cities are hitting the mark, as seen in fsujax's Anaheim example.  Again, look at Seattle's main library compared to ours, and numerous county courthouses compared to the one currently going up.

Why must we stay 15 years behind every other major city...

because everyone here complains if the project costs too much!

[tufsu1]

Is this the same JTA that can't pay for bus shelters without getting a sign ordinance exemption?

Misleading....JTA has no moeny to build the center....that's why they've applied for simulus funds...the remainder would be funded by FDOT

[Joe]

^ Also misleading because JTA trying to get the private sector pay for bus shelters is a great idea that's an example of positive, proactive planning on JTA's part !! Of all the things I'd critisize JTA for, that would be the last.