Jacksonville Transportation Center moves forward

[Ocklawaha]

No. 1. Not all BRT is "rapid" transit.  That's some of the bull we've been repeatedly feed over the years.  What's proposed in Jax is bus service that will run on existing streets, mixed with regular traffic.  In many cases, buses along these corridors will be subject to the same traffic conditions that individual automobile riders face.

Lake, how did you this information? The BRT in Curitiba is the worlds best, its express services fly along, their record speed is 32 KPH!

OOPS, that's only 19 mph... Light Rail average speed is 23 mph in the USA, the other buses in Curitiba move at 12 mph.

OCKLAWAHA

[Juker777]

You can begin by attending a few city council sessions and see how the system works.  Then, you can plan your approach so that it is the most effective.   


Juker777

[Murjax]

I know this is a little off subject but can someone explain how BRT is supposed to work? I know what it is, but I can't imagine it fixing anything unless they have their own designated travel lanes like I've heard. I have to wonder though, where do you fit them on roads that have already been expanded to their limit? If you "steal" travel lanes from the driving public, that would just make traffic worse.

[thelakelander]

It should not clog up traffic because they plan to use dedicated lanes in certain spots and mix them in with regular traffic in others.

However, what it will do is provide bus spines where you know a bus will come every 10 minutes.  That spine will also have bus shelters at all stops, off-bus fare collection, traffic signal priority, and real time travel information.  Its basically the implementation of a dependable high frequency bus corridors.  On BRT corridors, you won't have to worry about sitting in the sun or rain for an hour to catch a bus that may or may not come and possibly take you to a place you didn't mean to go to. 

In other words, something one would expect in any city of decent size.  Any visions outside of this will really set people up for a huge let down when it becomes operational.  However, it can be a huge asset when designed to complement rail spines.

[CS Foltz]

lake I concur with the BRT vision as you outlined and also must agree with the idea of the "RAIL" splines being an integral part of the concept! There in lies the problem with the current Administration.....no vision, no plan and most assuredly no competence! If the current Mayor is concerned about leaving a legacy, he has no legacy other than what he has displayed...............run the City like a business my left ham hock!

[Ocklawaha]

Funny stuff...

1922, streetcar schedules tightened to allow a car every 8 minutes in what had been every 10 minutes throughout downtown Jacksonville.

1932, streetcar schedules tightened to allow a car every 5 minutes in what had been every 8 minutes. System sold to Motor Transit Inc, a division of National City Lines, a division of GM and partners Standard Oil, Phillips, Firestone.

1936, streetcar, streetcar routes and schedules replaced with buses.

1952, bus operations cut back due to lack of profit and falling ridership.

1972, bus operations flat line at one bus every 60 minutes.

1982, bus operations tightened to allow one bus every 45 minutes.

2022, BRT bus schedules offer service every 10 minutes... "My how we have advanced!"

[CS Foltz]

Yep! How far have we come Ock.............makes me wonder if the same people running things were around back in those days! The same mentality sure as hell is!

[Murjax]

Where would you fit dedicated BRT lanes? The only roads I can imagine it being effective on are 9A, 295, JTB, and maybe 95. Dedicating lanes on any other road would just unravel whatever progress was made in Jacksonville's road widening projects. (e.g. Beach Blvd).

[thelakelander]

To build a system of dedicated lanes, you'll spend just as much or more as building rail from the start.  From what I understand, buses will also run in mixed traffic along most routes.  Depending on levels of congestion, queue jumping and traffic signal priority can be effective as well.

Queue Jump

[CS Foltz]

As you point out lake..........cost would be as much as rail or more! To me that statement says it all. There just appears to be a group within the City/State that is road oriented period. There is no alternative as far as they are concerned and that philosophy is detrimental to the City and the public overall!

[thelakelander]

Fortunately, no one is talking about building dedicated busways all over Jax anymore.  We can't afford it.

[CS Foltz]

Your right lake..........and I for one am glad of it! It probably would be cheaper if they (JTA) would just build shelters where needed and actually have a schedule that bus's could be depended on. This is not to mention actual pull off's at all stops that would allow vehicles to pass while taking on or discharging riders!

[tufsu1]

actually CS, if you ask bus oprators they HATE pull off lanes....primarily because it is hard to get back into the traffic flow.

[Seraphs]

I don't like JTA's plan for the transit center. It's as if JTA and the city itself are purposefully making it difficult for pedestrians with its sprawling design. They have no idea how to create a world class city, or maybe they just don't want Jacksonville to thrive like other Major cities do. I think metrojacksonville.com should start keeping tabs on every city official, what they stand for, what they're against. More important, we should find out if they'll build us a proud city, or keep us a sprawlling, anti pedestrian, generic, bumpkin town with no cares about the future. This is my first entry but I'm ready to do my part to make Jacksonville a real city again! If anyone has any advice for me on how I can raise awareness, please let me know.

Keeping tabs on city officials sounds good to me.

Considering the skyway is already in place, BRT should not stop in DT, other than the Skyway's end points.  This accomplishes two important things:

1. Feeds riders into the skyway.  This way you take advantage of the struggling transit investment already in place.  Imo, this is the true definition of complementing instead of duplicating. 

2. Reduces the overall travel time of BRT.  Not everyone using mass transit is headed to the central business district.  A reduction of DT stops for those not headed to DT means they'll arrive at their destinations earlier. 

According to all the lies JTA told way back when the skyway was on the drawing board this is the way it should be.  They even said parking garages were to built on the perimeters of downtown and people would catch the skyway into CBD.

[Ocklawaha]

According to all the lies JTA told way back when the skyway was on the drawing board this is the way it should be.  They even said parking garages were to built on the perimeters of downtown and people would catch the skyway into CBD.

This IS the way it should be, but when JTA built the Skyway a few things happened nobody expected.

First, nobody foresaw that all of the retail was heading out of downtown. Partly as a result of losing retail and attempting to save it, the CITY not JTA decided to build parking garages all over the CBD. The Skyway was not finished, funding was never secured but some engineering was done to open the line to Shand's via Hogans Creek, the stadium via Bay, and Riverside via Riverside Av.. What little was finished of the Skyway, went the wrong damn way! Sometime before construction, the city and JTA trashed the recommendations of every consultant they ever hired and built West from Hogan and Bay, when the traffic was EAST - AND THEY KNEW IT!

The heritage streetcar would have been far superior to any Skyway project, and upgraded with some transit lane technology, faster and farther. The Skyway should never have been built in the first place. We would have been FIRST to hit the ground with a heritage streetcar, that would have included 5 originals that were still known at that time. It's another great case of "Would of, Could of, Should of..." 

While I agree with BRT on Broad and Jefferson, I stand with Lakelander on NO DUPLICATION of services. I would even support two exclusive BRT busway segments, a flyover from the Acosta to Palm. Another short busway segment on or near Gary St., over the FEC, to Kings Av station. As a result of my stand I can not, and will not, support  BRT on Prudential Drive, or any north-south downtown street South of Union and State, or East of Broad, or west of Main. In almost all cases downtown we have alternatives that make much more sense.

OCKLAWAHA