The impact of zoning in Jacksonville

[cindi]

Shouldnt strider be able to speak for himself dan?

What is your post about?  To project your opinion of his opinions?

The thread is about zoning.

No that's not how they roll around Springfield...or at least not around 1321 N. Main anyway.

Next they'll find some old code fine that was vacated and use it to de-validate him as a greedy slumlord.

Nobody's allowed to have any ideas for the neighborhood. That's against the rules. You didn't get that memo?

seriously? if you believe that springfield sucks that bad, why for goodness sake do you spend so much time and energy on it? if people don't like how "they roll" - good news, main street is done, "roll" right on out.  no one is forcing anyone to go to springfield and no one is forcing anyone to stay - since obviously it would be such a punishment to some. 
zoning in springfield was most likely put in place with good intentions, just like everything else, sometimes it works positive, sometimes not. 

[cindi]

so people are so weak and feable and unable to think for themselves that they let a group (not really even that big of a group) consume so much of their lives?  again, if someone doesn't like the way something is done, use all of that "bitching" energy to change it. fish or cut bait.

[cindi]

well if you (collectively speaking) have money riding on it, perhaps action would work a little better than whining and hoping someone else fixes the problem.

[Dan B]

Shouldnt strider be able to speak for himself dan?

What is your post about?  To project your opinion of his opinions?

The thread is about zoning.

Are you Joes keeper Stephen?

My point, quite simply, is that Joe was against the Meeks Project, and his stated reasons to me at the time (6+ years ago), was that it will increase traffic, and it is incompatible with the residential surroundings. He told me that he also worried that it would be little more than a temp agency, which was incompatible with the overlay.

I thought the historical perspective was pertinent to the discussion, since its clear Joe now feels different. Im really not busting Joes balls, so much as wondering what precipitated his change of views on things, and if Jack were to propose that project now, if he would object still.

Personally I take it in a case by case, and try to not pass judgment until I have enough of the facts to form an opinion.

[cindi]

i could care less about spar.  i don't belong, it is what it is.   i in essense have no dog in this fight.  if i were as displeased about their "workings" and felt so wronged by them, it just seems that sitting around waiting for someone else to change it it seems futile.
The tendency to whining and complaining may be taken as the surest sign symptom of little souls and inferior intellects.  ~Lord Jeffrey

[Dan B]

I just find that not letting people speak for themselves usually turns into a flame war, and keeps anything positive from happening.

I will take you at your work, as you would certainly know about flame wars.

[thelakelander]

Anyone have any opinions on the Impact of Zoning in Jacksonville?

[sheclown]

There is a difference between a PUD and an exception.  I'm not totally sure about this, but I believe that the exception is for this one business, this one point in time, this one space.  A PUD, on the other hand, gives carte blanche for the life of the property.

So, Silas, if granted the exception, may put his car wash on line.  But that is it.

If Silas were granted a PUD, on the other hand, he could change uses in the future and is not compelled by his original plans.  And if he sold the property, the new owner gets the PUD to do with as he pleases.

If I am wrong about a PUD, I'd like to find out.  It certainly seems germane to the zoning discussion.

(I also believe that was Joe's objection -- the permanent nature of a PUD)

[thelakelander]

Yes, there is a huge difference between an exception and a PUD.  I think you did a pretty good job of explaining the two.

There is a difference between a PUD and an exception.  I'm not totally sure about this, but I believe that the exception is for this one business, this one point in time, this one space.  A PUD, on the other hand, gives carte blanche for the life of the property.

[strider]

I really haven’t changed my opinion of things, Dan.  If Mr. Meeks was just asking for his PUD today, I would ask the same questions as I would have the same concerns as to if he was doing a high end “labor pool” or not and if permanently changing zoning from residential to full commercial PUD was a good idea or not.  In other words, I would express my concerns today as I did then.  Asking those kinds of questions and getting answers to those kinds of concerns seems like the responsible thing to do. 

There are both good and bad uses for the infill commercial.  I do believe that businesses more like Three Layers would be the best choice for the true commercial infill, but then again, the offices work out OK too.  Each needs to be reviewed on it’s own merits based on the actual use, the actual location and even what the future might hold.  The real issue is simply to make sure the proposals are heard and evaluated properly, not simply dismissed out of hand.

The overlay, IMO, if followed by the letter without ever allowing any exceptions or PUD's would result in a loss of the Urban qualities and a Springfield that looked and felt more like a 'burb.  The Richmond zoning Sheclown talked about seems like an ideal fit here and one that we somehow have to educate the city about.

In Richmond (where I am right now), there is a zoning called "urban business" in which the bottom floor of a dwelling can be retail/commercial and the upper floors are residential.  This is spread out throughout the urban core on selected streets.  Apparently, there is also the zoning called R6 which means that the corner building on each block can be retail/commercial on the 1st floor.  This is how much of "The Fan" is zoned and that is a very vibrant urban neighborhood.

[sheclown]

We also need to lose the dismissive statement "its against the intent of the overlay" , IMHO. In favor of thoughtful discussions.

[sheclown]

interesting....yeah, that's the word I would use, too.

[ChriswUfGator]

It is interesting to me how some individuals and organizations trust one person with the responsibilities of managing a PUD and all the possibilities of its future impact on the community, but not another with something like an exception.

The problem I've got is that a self-annointed group of 20 people, who refuse to stand for election and have no accountability to anyone, has taken it upon themselves to determine for everyone else what is and isn't acceptable. And I have an even bigger problem that people get duped into listening to that group. You are totally correct Matt, in that the current setup is arbitrary and ripe for abuse.

In case no one has noticed, they're against EVERYTHING new. Well except VanHorn, but we all know how that turned out. People should support zoning exceptions like this Carwash. It will bring traffic to other neighborhood businesses and everybody wins. These same people crafted an overlay, which they now hide behind whenever it's convenient, that allows for the picking and choosing of who gets to open what usually based on nothing more than who likes who. The whole setup needs to change.   

[sheclown]

Stephen, I'm really glad that you are introducing this topic. 

Apparently, we have judged that density is negative, (and consequently zoning in elbow room for ourselves as a protection against it) and now we have the empty downtown to show for it.