CARE system

[Doug V]

True, they do...however the city makes no effort to collect or even take the property for Sheriff sale as most major cities do. A property with many complaints can then land on the demo list...which has happened many times.

I agree Springfielder, the City needs more teeth in its collection of these fines.  I guess some of the irresponsible property owners can hire attorneys and wriggle out the the fines they rack up.  But consider that in the case at hand, the property owner owned a bunch of properties, ran up many thousands in code enforcement fines and liens, and apparently decided to get out of the buy, sell, flip, rent business.  Maybe the fines, defects and all, created a positive outcome for our community after all.

Doug Vanderlaan
1453 Market St N

[ChriswUfGator]

True, they do...however the city makes no effort to collect or even take the property for Sheriff sale as most major cities do. A property with many complaints can then land on the demo list...which has happened many times.

I agree Springfielder, the City needs more teeth in its collection of these fines.  I guess some of the irresponsible property owners can hire attorneys and wriggle out the the fines they rack up.  But consider that in the case at hand, the property owner owned a bunch of properties, ran up many thousands in code enforcement fines and liens, and apparently decided to get out of the buy, sell, flip, rent business.  Maybe the fines, defects and all, created a positive outcome for our community after all.

Quoted so it doesn't disappear.

[ChriswUfGator]

I agree Springfielder, the City needs more teeth in its collection of these fines.  I guess some of the irresponsible property owners can hire attorneys and wriggle out the the fines they rack up. But consider that in the case at hand, the property owner owned a bunch of properties, ran up many thousands in code enforcement fines and liens, and apparently decided to get out of the buy, sell, flip, rent business.

That fine was utter B.S. It was illegal to begin with. That's why it was vacated. Not because I "wriggled out of it".

Keep it up.

[ChriswUfGator]

Based on your posts, Doug, it appears that you're speaking on behalf of SHADCO on these forums:

The CARE system is a topic I have had enough experience with that I think I can bring some much needed clarity to the discussion.

Does SPAR conduct mass CARE complaint campaigns against targeted properties?  Not to my knowledge, and I ought to know.  As an active part of SPAR's Block Captains for years I led an effort to use the CARE system on a much larger scale.  We often discussed the CARE system in Block Captins meetings, and I suspect I have placed more complaints than anyone in Jax.  I still use it, and encourage my neighbors to do the same.

The majority of issues I place in CARE call for the city to take action, not the property owner.  Examples: requests to pick up missed garbage and tires, repair sidewalks, remove dead trees, abandoned cars, etc.

We certainly do use it to try to get delinquent property owners to clean to their act.  It can be effective, but it can also fail, for example if the property owner can't be located, or if he ignores to threat of escalating fines.  I never had the ability or inclination to get groups of neighbors to file a complaint on the same property, let alone hundreds.  Even if I could, I don't think that multiple complaints bring much more attention that a single one.  Each must be evaluated by the city, and judged on its merits wrt city code.

As to speaking with neighbors, block captains do that too.  I devised a postcard that we have sent to many residents and owners.  Our objective with these is primarily educational, i.e. politely reminding residents to put garbage in containers, and call in waste tires.

Is it possible to indicate who is placing the CARE issue?  Yes, it certainly is.  Block Captains had no policy as to submitting anonymously or not, but I always include my name, and I think most of us do.

Does CARE work?  Not perfectly, but pretty well.  I am confident that Block Captains' efforts have led to hundreds or tires being removed, tons of garbage removed, dozens (hundreds?) of overgrown lots mown, lots of sidewalks repaired, hundreds of streetlights repaired (strictly speaking, not via CARE) and many abandoned cars removed.

CARE complaint can and have helped get major heat brought to bear on delinquent property owners and slumlords.  They can, via due process, ultimately lead to big fines.  See for example: http://www.duvalclerk.com/oncoreweb/showdetails.aspx?id=8568291&rn=84&pi=5&ref=search .

So I can imagine that irresponsible property owners and slumlords don't care for CARE, and wish SPAR and Springfielders wouldn't use it, but used skillfully, it can do very good things for the neighborhood.  Residents ought to love it.  (And I think they generally do.)

SHADCO is on Christmas break now, but the last meeting was on 10-26, a few days after the thread above.  Please do come to our next meeting, January 25, 6PM at SPAR.  I don't know whether we will have any Weed & Seed news then, but I hope to generally keep SHADCO engaged with Weed & Seed.  In the meantime, Mr. Cronwrath is indeed a good contact.

Please be aware that you've made it clear you're speaking as SHADCO, and that I view your comments accordingly.

[Dan B]

Holy meltdown batman. Dude, take a step back.

[ChriswUfGator]

Holy meltdown batman. Dude, take a step back.

With all due respect Dan, I wasn't the one who took the step forward to begin with.

This guy is on these forums with the apparent authority to speak on behalf of SHADCO, and goes off stating as fact that I'm a "slumlord," etc., etc. If that's the game, then fine by me. There'll be no FCC to complain to here. Just me, him, probably SHADCO, and a judge.

This simply went too far. I've had enough.

[Springfielder]

I don't know if anyone would've known who the property owner was until they went off...so now we all know.

As for libel or slander....wouldn't one have to prove damage(s) and such cases are extremely difficult to prove and/or win, are they not?



edited: typo

[Dan B]

Whatever. Chris is acting like a whiny baby. He can dish it out all day long, and talk about what a 'sack' someone else is, and how everone at an organization is corrupt, but when some one suggests he is upset due to his own lack of ability to keep his own properties safe and clean, he melts down and threatens lawsuit.

Very weak.

[nvrenuf]

Using 'we' and 'our' in one post referring to Block Captains and using the same collective phraseology when referring to ShAdCo is not the same as representing ShAdCo in every post when using those same terms.

When referencing 'we' at work I am referring to my immediate colleagues and not the same people when referencing 'we' if I am at a neighborhood meeting. The two do not match up.

The second part of the paragraph can be presumed to speak of the effectiveness of CARE requests not necessarily the persons referenced in the first sentence. Any good attorney would be able to cut that to shreds if a suit was filed.

[ChriswUfGator]

I don't know if anyone would've known who the property owner was until they went off...so now we all know.

As for libel or slander....wouldn't one have to prove damage(s) and such cases are extremely difficult to prove and/or win, are they not?

edited: typo

That's the thing about libel per se, you don't have to prove special damages as with traditional defamation.

[ChriswUfGator]

Using 'we' and 'our' in one post referring to Block Captains and using the same collective phraseology when referring to ShAdCo is not the same as representing ShAdCo in every post when using those same terms.

When referencing 'we' at work I am referring to my immediate colleagues and not the same people when referencing 'we' if I am at a neighborhood meeting. The two do not match up.

The second part of the paragraph can be presumed to speak of the effectiveness of CARE requests not necessarily the persons referenced in the first sentence. Any good attorney would be able to cut that to shreds if a suit was filed.

You're overlooking the fact that this isn't two coworkers gossiping. He's the SHADCO Chairman for Sector B, and repeatedly posts here on behalf of SHADCO. His statements carry more weight than a normal poster, because of his position. AFAIK, his libelous post could have been made in his capacity as SHADCO Chair.

I'm not going to engage in anymore legal debate about all of this. If I'm forced to respond to the self-described SHADCO Chairman's statement-as-fact that I'm a "slumlord" in court, I'll take that up at that time.

[Springfielder]

That's the thing about libel per se, you don't have to prove special damages as with traditional defamation.

But wouldn't you have to prove damages? Seems to me, Doug used the terms such as "irresponsible property owners" "delinquent property owners and slumlords" I don't recall him saying which one he directly referred to the court document he listed. I might add, that with the situation having gone through the court system, then something was wrong with said owner and their property....

[ChriswUfGator]

Whatever. Chris is acting like a whiny baby. He can dish it out all day long, and talk about what a 'sack' someone else is, and how everone at an organization is corrupt, but when some one suggests he is upset due to his own lack of ability to keep his own properties safe and clean, he melts down and threatens lawsuit.

Very weak.

SPAR is a public organization, and is accordingly open to public comment. I am not.

And while I don't have a high opinion of SPAR and its crew, I've said nothing untrue about them. If an organization violates its bylaws by refusing to hold elections, or disregards its mandate by helping destroy historic housing stock, then my saying so isn't libelous.

But this personal B.S. needs to stop. The comments here crossed a line.

[ChriswUfGator]

That's the thing about libel per se, you don't have to prove special damages as with traditional defamation.

But wouldn't you have to prove damages? Seems to me, Doug used the terms such as "irresponsible property owners" "delinquent property owners and slumlords" I don't recall him saying which one he directly referred to the court document he listed. I might add, that with the situation having gone through the court system, then something was wrong with said owner and their property....

Give it a rest. He posted a link with my name on it saying here's an "example". Who do you think he was referring to then?

[Springfielder]

That's the thing about libel per se, you don't have to prove special damages as with traditional defamation.

But wouldn't you have to prove damages? Seems to me, Doug used the terms such as "irresponsible property owners" "delinquent property owners and slumlords" I don't recall him saying which one he directly referred to the court document he listed. I might add, that with the situation having gone through the court system, then something was wrong with said owner and their property....

Give it a rest. He posted a link with my name on it saying here's an "example".

You're the one blasting off about libel and such....