List of "special Uses" in Springfield. (Rooming Houses too!)

[sheclown]

I would say that Strider's list is probably more accurate. 

[strider]

My list is accurate...less the one missing one.  Ok, I found a way to find it and the list is now complete.

They are all grandfathered and licensed either by the DBPR or the Health Department.

Perhaps their list was an attempt at listing only rooming houses, otherwise I do not know why it is not accurate.

[Springfield Girl]

I was told that the list of legal houses was obtained from the city and were the ones that had complied with all the requirements per the compromise last year.

[strider]

I know a couple not on their list did comply...... Also, the city never notified anyone, we had to and then add in the fact that no one even knew who to give the information too, we had to force the planning department to take it. In other words, do not think that if a facility is not on the "city list", as presented by SPAR Council, that it is illegal.

[Springfield Girl]

It has nothing to do with SPAR council, the list was given to the org. by the city. We all have to go on info given as no one can read minds or pull the info out of thin air. The city gave it, SPAR council accepted it in good faith and that was passed on to us residents.

[ChriswUfGator]

It has nothing to do with SPAR council, the list was given to the org. by the city. We all have to go on info given as no one can read minds or pull the info out of thin air. The city gave it, SPAR council accepted it in good faith and that was passed on to us residents.

You've got a catch-22 problem there SG. SPAR has always been the ones making the big stink about this issue and "gathering evidence" and turning all the information over to COJ, plus orchestrating mass-complaint call-ins, etc.

So "COJ's" list no doubt relied heavily on everything SPAR has been spoon-feeding them. If SPAR then runs around claiming "it's COJ's list...", that's kind of ridiculous, because it's been SPAR's issue right from the beginning and most of COJ's info came from SPAR.

[Springfield Girl]

No Chris, you've got it wrong as do many people. Most of us know the legal houses and the illegal houses. The legal ones have not been the problem for the most part. The city gave SPAR the most recent list of legal houses (the ones that provided all the needed documentation) and that is the list they provided online. Suspected illegal houses are known because neighbors seeing suspicious behavior have reported them. I have an illegal boarding house a block down from my home. How do I know? I and all the other neighbors for three blocks know because the owner had no window coverings for a long time. Along with visible locks on the doors, including the living room which has been turned into a rentable room, it is a constant revolving door of lowlifes. They show up in cabs at all hours, get out with their suitcases and leave the same way. There is constant turnover. Some are there for days, some weeks and others months. The owner is a real gem that lives in Miami but figured the game out pretty quickly. People ask how this can be done and it's easy. Just start moving folks in. The bums spread the word fast through their street network. Most of these people living in boarding houses have moved in and out of several in the neighborhood. They stay in one for a little while, quit paying rent, get kicked out then move to another. Guys will come back after being away for years and return to places they have stayed in the past. Needless to say it's getting a little confusing for them as things have changed so much. They have to street network a little to find the newest flophouses.

[strider]

This is the actual state licensed rooming houses within the boundaries of Historic Springfield.  It is a different list than SPAR Council posted.

1214-1216 N. Main St.â€"Lone Palm Guest House
0

Is this the blue house next to the used car lot?

  I believe so.. Mr. Geisel (corrected per Sheclowns post) also owns the one on Laura and used to have others.  I believe if you ask people like Phil Neary, you will find those places were always nice. It was a family enterprise for years.

[sheclown]

Ray Geisel

They have been in his family since the 60s, I believe.  He remembers running around Valerios when he was a little boy and Valerios was a convenience store.

[strider]

It has nothing to do with SPAR council, the list was given to the org. by the city. We all have to go on info given as no one can read minds or pull the info out of thin air. The city gave it, SPAR council accepted it in good faith and that was passed on to us residents.

SG, I said: I know a couple not on their list did comply...... Also, the city never notified anyone, we had to and then add in the fact that no one even knew who to give the information too, we had to force the planning department to take it. In other words, do not think that if a facility is not on the "city list", as presented by SPAR Council, that it is illegal.

If someone looks at the list provided to SPAR Council by the city and calls in complaints on a legally licensed facility because it isn't on that list, it will mean nothing except that the owner will be getting a visit and the state or city will waste more of our tax dollars.  If they are licensed and in business today, they are legal.

As to pulling it out of thin air or reading minds to get it, try searching on the DBPR site and then PM me and I can tell you how to find it on the Heath Department site.  Pretty darn easy actually....all you have to do is care enough to get the true information for yourself.  Are you trying to say the people over at SPAR Council aren't up to the task?

[AlexS]

SG, I said: I know a couple not on their list did comply...... Also, the city never notified anyone, we had to and then add in the fact that no one even knew who to give the information too, we had to force the planning department to take it. In other words, do not think that if a facility is not on the "city list", as presented by SPAR Council, that it is illegal.

If someone looks at the list provided to SPAR Council by the city and calls in complaints on a legally licensed facility because it isn't on that list, it will mean nothing except that the owner will be getting a visit and the state or city will waste more of our tax dollars.  If they are licensed and in business today, they are legal.

That is truly sad. Which means the overlay and zoning code means nothing as the city truly does not have the means or record keeping to enforce it. So why even bother to pass the overlay amendment ?
But then the City really does not have to notify any one. Not knowing the law or being ignorant to it does not keep you immune.

[strider]

Alex, in this case, the fact that the places hold licenses that can be traced back many years sort of has the same effect as "complying" as that was the intent to begin with. The same places that were grandfathered before 1046 are still grandfatherd today. 

You are right, in a way, about the notification of the law, however, as this is a zoning issue and not criminal, once they do notify, they must give "reasonable time" to comply.  And "reasonable time" could be a long time, depending on circumstance.

[ChriswUfGator]

No Chris, you've got it wrong as do many people. Most of us know the legal houses and the illegal houses. The legal ones have not been the problem for the most part. The city gave SPAR the most recent list of legal houses (the ones that provided all the needed documentation) and that is the list they provided online. Suspected illegal houses are known because neighbors seeing suspicious behavior have reported them. I have an illegal boarding house a block down from my home. How do I know? I and all the other neighbors for three blocks know because the owner had no window coverings for a long time. Along with visible locks on the doors, including the living room which has been turned into a rentable room, it is a constant revolving door of lowlifes. They show up in cabs at all hours, get out with their suitcases and leave the same way. There is constant turnover. Some are there for days, some weeks and others months. The owner is a real gem that lives in Miami but figured the game out pretty quickly. People ask how this can be done and it's easy. Just start moving folks in. The bums spread the word fast through their street network. Most of these people living in boarding houses have moved in and out of several in the neighborhood. They stay in one for a little while, quit paying rent, get kicked out then move to another. Guys will come back after being away for years and return to places they have stayed in the past. Needless to say it's getting a little confusing for them as things have changed so much. They have to street network a little to find the newest flophouses.

Before I got back to the thread, Strider had already addressed this better than I could.

[sheclown]

a history lesson for those who are interested.

Special uses. Special uses include residential treatment facilities, rooming houses, emergency shelter homes, group care homes, and community residential homes of over six residents

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=12174

[strider]

Heer's an update on how many "Special Uses" there really are:

1214-1216 N. Main St. - One Palm Guest House – still a legal rooming house. The owner is around a lot.  This is the address that comes up but I think there is at least one other house attached to the grandfathering.

1152 N. Laura St. - France's Rooms  This was converted to a simple rental for the most part.  Like it has granite counter tops.  Cool place.

1616 N Pearl Street - Ms Carters – this one with a couple of other houses (now closed) was originally for merchant marines, but I know a couple of guys had been there for like ten years or more.  I do not know if it is still being operated. I used to live next door and it was never an issue.  (Ms Carter lived on the other side of me.)

1120 Hubbard St. - Alco Halfway House (AA) A very cool house with I'd say over 95% of the original features still intact.  JFK had dinner there during the 1960 campaign, In 1963 the Doctor donated it to the non-profit to be used as a Halfway house for "skid row" drunks. They also have the little commercial building on the corner as a legal snack bar – anyone can stop in for an affordable cup of Joe or a hamburger.

1222 Hubbard St. - (C. Louise Wilson) Vintage Properties – still being operated by the son I believe.

1733 N. Pearl St. - Home Away From Home – Sober living high density (AA) This is ours, owned and operated by Barbara & Grace, Inc., a 501 c 3 formed by Barbara and Grace, two women who got sober together and decided to give back and help "skid row" drunks back in the sixties.  The first Sober House and Detox center in Florida was opened by them on I think Hubbard Street even prior to 1963. Today we have reduced the density from the legal maximums and the guys now cook for themselves.  Independence adds to self worth, in our opinion.

217 E 1st St.& 205 E 1st. St. - Dortch's Rooming House – AKA Redwine/ Dunlop.  Theses are not great, but not as bad as they once were. 

2020 N Main Street - Ms. Lucy's rooming house.  Ms. Lucy did pass away, but it is still being operated bu the family.  Great House. Lots of stories from long term Springfield residents about living in this house.  Ms Lucy was quite the character, in fact her grandmother was the original resident so her mother and in fact herself were born in the house.  And died in the house.  The picture of JFK riding up main Street that is often seen was taken at this house.

1704-1706 N. Pearl St. - City Houses, Inc. Halfway house (AA) Still open and doing well.  It was originally an ACLF but was bought and converted to a lessor use by the current owner.  They are well maintained and are well run.

20 W 4th St - Alcoholics Service Center  Halfway house (AA) Still open and do well.  This was  the first detox centers in the country to our knowledge.  Today is is simply a halfway house.  By the way, I differentiate between High Density Halfway Houses and High Density Sober House because Halfway Houses have commercial kitchens and cooks while in Sober Houses everyone cooks for themselves.

133 W. 6th St. - Ruth's Family Home Away From Home – this was a 7 or more group care home and I believe it has closed.

Peterson's ALF   __   1622 Silver Street  _ this was a 7 or more group care home and I believe it has closed.


If I count them correctly, it seems that I was wrong that there are 12 Special Uses, there seems to be only 10 (12 or 13 structures).  As there were once 40 to 60 legal special uses, the Overlay seems to be, in fact, doing it's job quite nicely. 

So, if there only 10 legal Special Uses, what was the stuff about 50 or 60?  Well, for one thing, many can't seem to grasp that some uses are not special uses, but simply uses by right.  IE: Simply legal with out any special rules or regulations.

Here's an interesting fact for you.  You can not be an illegal Special Use.  You can be an illegal use, but Special Uses are used to describe a type of legal business.  You can be found to be operating an illegal rooming house, but that is not a special use at that point, it is simply illegal.  And it can't make a difference if you rent to Proton Patients or the bum off the street.  The Overlay states no new legal rooming houses, in fact, most of Jacksonville does, so there can not be more legal rooming houses than found in the list above.

There were at one time I believe two, maybe three , low density, 6 or fewer, group care homes, AKA nursing homes.  These are not special uses, but are a legal use by right, no exception is required though there are various rules that must be followed.

There are also a few of what we call Sober House that are low density (5 unrelated adults or less) who share an annual lease on a house.  We only have one at the moment.  There may or may not be a few more around, but as they are not ours and are simply legal rentals, I don't know how many or where they might be. By the way, up to 5 med students, nurses, school teachers, ETC are also allowed to share a legal lease.  It seems like it would be  legal for those once homeless as well.

The bottom line is that while the overlay was indeed structured to reduce ( not forcibly close legal businesses) the number of "Special Uses"  it also recognized that certain uses, like regular rentals, low density group care homes (6 or fewer), ETC.  are needed and legal to have all over Jacksonville.  And, before some make that false claim that they are only in Springfield, they are not.  They are all over Jacksonville.  And so are many places we call "Special Uses" here.  The Springfield Overlay simply happened to name them "Special".