Springfield Community Meeting - 11/05 @ 7pm

[sheclown]

As in the poem -- good fences make good neighbors.

[fsujax]

The interesting thing last night was when Chris Farley turned to the crowd and ask if anyone wanted a rooming/boarding house or whatever next door to them.....guess how many people raised thier hands??? 0..... I was wondering where all the outspoken supporters of the facilities were. They didn't say too much. This was my first Springfield meeting and it was not what I was expecting....where were the fireworks??? :-)

[sheclown]

Mending Wall    
by Robert Frost  


Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun;
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs.  The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
'Stay where you are until our backs are turned!'
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of outdoor game,
One on a side.  It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors.'
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
'Why do they make good neighbors?  Isn't it
Where there are cows?  But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offense.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.'  I could say 'Elves' to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself.  I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me,
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, 'Good fences make good neighbors.'

[cindi]

Chris, for some reason you think we are babes in the wood or something. We arent. I was a sitting board member for almost three years, and have been fairly involved since I moved to the community in 2003. Matt has been involved since he moved in several years ago.

All of these people you are casting aspersions at, or sucking up to as the case may be, I have known and have worked/dealt with many a time, including Joe, Gloria, Claude, and Louise.

So please, save the accolades. I personally have no need for them. I have always, and will always call them as I see them.

That's the problem. You weren't calling them as you saw them, until last night's meeting.

wow, the powers you have, what with being able to know how someone else "sees" something.  really? seriously?

[hooplady]

The interesting thing last night was when Chris Farley turned to the crowd and ask if anyone wanted a rooming/boarding house or whatever next door to them.....guess how many people raised thier hands??? 0..... I was wondering where all the outspoken supporters of the facilities were. They didn't say too much. This was my first Springfield meeting and it was not what I was expecting....where were the fireworks??? :-)

fsu, that's like asking how many people stopped beating their children.

Would I actively encourage such a facility to be next to me?  Probably not.  But if I had one next to me and it never caused any problems would I want to spy on them to get them forced out?  That's a different question.

I don't expect SPAR to go out and recruit new boarding houses or recovery houses.  I just don't think we need to spend so much time and energy driving away some folks who aren't causing any (proven) harm.  Personally I think if we continue to keep doing all the right things - making the community safe and vibrant - these houses won't be an issue.

But then, I live in the bubble...

[02roadking]

The interesting thing last night was when Chris Farley turned to the crowd and ask if anyone wanted a rooming/boarding house or whatever next door to them.....guess how many people raised thier hands??? 0..... I was wondering where all the outspoken supporters of the facilities were. They didn't say too much. This was my first Springfield meeting and it was not what I was expecting....where were the fireworks??? :-)

Mmmmm, sorry I missed the meeting last night...

And that is a loaded question.
 How about asking... if anyone wants a well run rooming/boarding house or whatever next door to them...
 My answer is sure. I've got no problem with it.

[cindi]

hey bubble lady (said with all the love and affection possible) i still beat monkey , is there a problem with that?  maybe a better question is - how many people here are alcoholics, just don't live in a special "house"? oh, that's right, the one's in the sober houses have admitted that they have a problem. my bad.
i am curious, do we think that these places cause more trouble than, let's say the crack running APARTMENT building at the corner of 5th and perry?

[AlexS]

The interesting thing last night was when Chris Farley turned to the crowd and ask if anyone wanted a rooming/boarding house or whatever next door to them.....guess how many people raised thier hands??? 0..... I was wondering where all the outspoken supporters of the facilities were. They didn't say too much. This was my first Springfield meeting and it was not what I was expecting....where were the fireworks??? :-)

Kind of an odd question since no new rooming/boarding houses are allowed. So people living near the 8 or so legal ones already have them there. Others can't get any next to them.

[ChriswUfGator]

The interesting thing last night was when Chris Farley turned to the crowd and ask if anyone wanted a rooming/boarding house or whatever next door to them.....guess how many people raised thier hands??? 0..... I was wondering where all the outspoken supporters of the facilities were. They didn't say too much. This was my first Springfield meeting and it was not what I was expecting....where were the fireworks??? :-)

So that must mean that people want petty battles, conflicts of interests, sneaky tricks like being asked to "sign in" when really they're signing a government petition, a B.O.D. and E.D. who disregard bylaws and refuse to stand for election, and on, and on, and on?

[ChriswUfGator]

Chris, for some reason you think we are babes in the wood or something. We arent. I was a sitting board member for almost three years, and have been fairly involved since I moved to the community in 2003. Matt has been involved since he moved in several years ago.

All of these people you are casting aspersions at, or sucking up to as the case may be, I have known and have worked/dealt with many a time, including Joe, Gloria, Claude, and Louise.

So please, save the accolades. I personally have no need for them. I have always, and will always call them as I see them.

That's the problem. You weren't calling them as you saw them, until last night's meeting.

wow, the powers you have, what with being able to know how someone else "sees" something.  really? seriously?

You don't need any special powers. Just read his own comments over the past month.

[fsu813]

Jeez people!

I'm rather surprised how some people feel about the meeting.

1) I was disappointed that there wasn't time to talk about other things too, but I guess I misunderstood the purpose of the meeting. I didn't realize how this one topic could take so much time to discuss.

2) I wasn't there when it started, came in 2 minutes late, but noone asked me to "sign in". I did get passed the petition though. I saw it at the end and there were about 25-30 signatures and 2 people's names crossed out. As everyone knows, at every neighborhood meeting (SPAR, Shadco, SAMBA, etc) people are asked to sign in. If she said at the start to "sign in" I'm guessing this is what she was referring to. Besides, the petition was clearly marked at the top of the page. CLEARLY MARKED.

3) Sheclown, noone was encourage to "spy on neighbors". They specifically said to observe and document if they see something funny going on. See the difference? Saying that they encouraged people to spy on neighbors is dishonest and disingenuious. Observing & documenting suspicious behavior is standard no matter what issue you are talking about or what neighborhood you live in.

4) Matt McVay, how would you suggest engaging the owners of an illegal boarding house that they delibrately don't want authorties to find, they didn't go through proper application (b/c it would be denied), and are trying be be as UNavailable as possible. I do know for fact that letters have been written to owners. As you can imagine, they aren't eager to respond unless they are legit.Again, I wouldn't characterize "if you see something that doesn't look right, observe and document it" as a "witch hunt".

5) There are 8 legit rooming houses, 16 addition, illegal ones suspected. Let's say half of those turn out to be nothing.......that still is DOUBLES the amount of legal rooming houses. And as was stated multiple times last night me, you, or SPAR is not in charge of determining what is & what is not a rooming house. Totally out of yours & SPARs hands. That's up to the city to determine and enforce. And if a house is not, then fine, great, nothing for them or anyone else to worry about.

6) I though Michael Truatman has the best ideas of how to effectively communicate to the pwoers that be. I hope those action steps are taken.

7) All of Proton's housing is public knowledge and can be found at thier website. I have no idea why that comparison was brought up, but it's easily dismissed. There are B&B type places on the list, but no "rooms are for rent". Furthermore, I have personally inspected proposed housing for our patients that WERE rooming houses. Namely one on Pearl Street. Obviously we weren't interested.

Springfielder, noone suggested that neighbors call in a barrage of phone calls because the property is a recovery house. That's a dishonest statement. There are 8 legit rooming houses which will be made public today (check SPAR's website), the rest are illegal. If this 'recovery house' has more than 5 unrelated people in it and it's not of the 8 grandafthered in, then it's illegal and people SHOULD call and complain about it. If it doesn't fit the citeria then they shouldn't. Noone suggested otherwise.

9) cindi, you are correct. There are no more additional facilities allowed, besides the 8 that already exist. But some people have added them anyways. This is black & white, open & closed case. Where the issue gets sticky is a "low-density" home, meaning that they have 5 unrelated people living there (so it's under the 6 limit) but the purpose is still the same. The best example of these would be Strider & Sheclowns "sober houses". While technically legal, it goes against the sentiment of the law/code when written.

10) fsujax, exactly. Noone raised their hand when asked who would like a rooming house next door to them. Noone. Not the vocal proponents of them, even. The 8 that are grandfathered in are spoken for and fine. No issues. Any others are the issue. And as everyone found out last night, they are certainly here and trying to expand. trying to EXPAND. not keep the status qou. EXPAND. That is not a good thing if you happen to live in the neighborhood. Noone is advocating harrassment, spying, etc. Noone has an issue with the 8 grandfathered rooming houses. It's additional ones that need to be nipped in the bud. Simply observing and documenting helps.

11) As I suspected, there was one large personality that is noticebabley present in most of these discussions online and noticeabley absent in these discussions in-person.

12) Also, proponents of these boarding houses spoke up once during the meeting. It was to dispute the claim that a well-educated rooming house tenant was helping to write grants in exchange for housing, and that he was working with other agencies in efforts to expand. This was reported by perhaps the most reputable of the SPAR board, the VP. I've never heard a negative word said about him. he also reported that a 1-800 had been in use to place people in illegal boarding houses.

[Springfielder]

Springfielder, noone suggested that neighbors call in a barrage of phone calls because the property is a recovery house. That's a dishonest statement. There are 8 legit rooming houses which will be made public today (check SPAR's website), the rest are illegal. If this 'recovery house' has more than 5 unrelated people in it and it's not of the 8 grandafthered in, then it's illegal and people SHOULD call and complain about it. If it doesn't fit the citeria then they shouldn't. Noone suggested otherwise.

Interpretation, and yours is clearly different. I did however like the good people vs bad people, which yes, was quickly taken back when he was called on that....

[cindi]

again, you are claiming to be able to read his mind/innermost thoughts, who died and left you swami?, perhaps you have a tumor and should seek help at the proton beam facility, then even you can be bestowed the priveledge of staying in springfield without being the target of a witch hunt.  

[ChriswUfGator]

again, you are claiming to be able to read his mind/innermost thoughts, who died and left you swami?, perhaps you have a tumor and should seek help at the proton beam facility, then even you can be bestowed the priveledge of staying in springfield without being the target of a witch hunt.  

I'd love to have you show me where I said I'm able to read his mind. Lol. You don't have to! Just read his posts.

[Springfielder]

again, you are claiming to be able to read his mind/innermost thoughts, who died and left you swami?, perhaps you have a tumor and should seek help at the proton beam facility, then even you can be bestowed the priveledge of staying in springfield without being the target of a witch hunt.  

That's rich, thanks Cindi....I needed a good laugh