Top 10 Things to Make DOWN-town a BOOM-town

[sandyshoes]

Gee, Ock;  once again I seem to be a target of your insults.  You strike me as pretty full of yourself.

[thelakelander]

This entertainment complex already physically exists (at least a good portion of it).  Its the east side of the Markets at Town Center strip mall (the one directly behind Costco).  It appears that they plan to put restaurants and bars into the empty strip mall retail bays.  Whiskey River is going to an existing retail bay (the building on the right side of photo) and Black Finn is constructing a building in one of the nearby outparcels.



http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,7046.msg118471.html#msg118471

[Fallen Buckeye]

Took my parents to the Riverwalks and both of them had never seen Jacksonville before. Funny thing is that the words rat hole or crusty never came up. They both thought it was nice for the most part. Downtown is nice as it is. It just has so much potential to grow and become something great. Positive, can-do thinking is key.

[stjr]

Buckeye, I think you hit the nail on the head.  It's what you DON"T see (i.e. "so much potential") that has so many of us on edge.  We are "positive" to the point that we have greater expectations for our City than our "settle for second or third best" city leaders (that includes the independent authorities, commissions, and state and federal legislative delegations).  They are the ones who lack the "positive, can-do thinking" we all agree is key to improving our community.  Hopefully, MJ can foment a movement that contributes to new kind of leadership going forward.

[Bostech]

It would be easier to turn St. Johns towncenter into downtown.

[thelakelander]

It would be pretty difficult to move the river.  However, SJTC is doing what it was meant and designed to do.  That is to become a popular regional shopping center.

[Ocklawaha]

Gee, Ock;  once again I seem to be a target of your insults.  You strike me as pretty full of yourself.

No insult intended, just my usual sarcastic comedy, didn't mean to upset you but the PCT touches a delicate cord.

Full of myself? Not at all SandyShoes, I just hate the fact that JTA has sold a cheap, plastic imitation to an unsuspecting public that has gone 2-3 generations without mass transit. It's the mass transit equal of handing your two year old a pygmy rattlesnake and telling him/her it's a jump rope. Not just a lie, but a dangerous lie.

The JTA and COJ, are feeling the heat from MJ and the streetcar stormtroopers working with the old hippie. The more we push for REAL streetcars, the more they have ordered and expanded the stupid PCT "Trolleys". The PCT cars have been shown in several test cases as having NO RELATIONSHIP to the ridership of real streetcars. So the other lie that somehow these things will prove the need for real streetcars is completely false. They also don't "build ridership," contrary to the supposed "experience" with the Beaches all summer or Riverside-Landing lunch runs. Neither these runs nor the downtown has ever been tested with a simple electric shuttle bus, a low floor circulator, a true trolley bus, vintage bus, or even Jitney Van. It wouldn't matter to Joe Surfer if the thing looked like a rolling johnny-on-the-job, as long as it got them to the next wave.

So you see, it isn't about you or me, it's about transit. Excellent Transit, no seconds, take no prisoners good transit. Glad to have you join me and the various sections of the City that are tossing the flaming shots at our sorry excuse for transit.

OCKLAWAHA

[Bostech]

It would be pretty difficult to move the river.  However, SJTC is doing what it was meant and designed to do.  That is to become a popular regional shopping center.

Well it might be easier to dig up new canal and create a river next to mall then to turn downtown into urban zone where people will actually live and be.Seems like none except people on this board are interested in urban living.

[thelakelander]

What happens to SJTC in 15-20 years when the area around it ages and the newest regional shopping center opens?  Is there any reason to believe it won't become the next Gateway or Regency?

Maybe its me but SJTC is no different that any new mall in anyplace USA.  Indianapolis, Orlando, Charlotte, Austin, DC, etc. all have suburban malls just as popular as SJTC and yet they still have vibrant DTs.  Regardless of what happens at SJTC, DT can still be vibrant.  Riverside, San Marco, Murray Hill and Springfield prove that a good segment of the population values urban living.  All DT needs is for city hall to stop hindering it.

[Bostech]

You really think Peyton who makes money selling gas will let people of Jacksonville rather walk then drive???
Heck they even mismanage traffic lights signals so you can sit at red light and burn more gas instead of moving quicker.
Its in their interest for you to live in suburbs,spending money on maintaining house and your precious grass,driving your car to mall where you will spend your hard earned money on some stupid crap that you will regret later or will break prematurely.
Its not in their interest for you to live efficiently.Urban living is not good for business and profit.

[tufsu1]

you're right Bostech....the folks at Gate could care less about Jacksonville's future 

[Captain Zissou]

Unless the density of the town center doubles, I don't see it lasting.  You already have to get in your car and drive from Bento at the front, to Barnes & Noble which is in the middle.  Once you're in the car, what is to prevent you from driving elsewhere in the southside or to another part of town.  Either SJTC needs to get fixed transit and build up, or I see it dying a slow (potentially very slow, but still) death to an eventual downtown full of residents and destinations.

[JeffreyS]

I don't think SJTC has to go the route of gateway look at the O.P. mall it is packed all the time and isn't flashy or new.

[tufsu1]

how about the Avenues then....like Regency, it ha been affected by the opening of SJTC.

Orange Park doesn't have any real competition....yet.

[JeffreyS]

Oh it can go down I just do not think it is a forgone conclusion. It depends on if shopping centers keep going up faster than demands.