New Convenience Store

[jason_contentdg]

^As he should have.  I think everyone should go through the process. 

I do think there's quite a bit of room for improvement regarding the process, however.

[Springfield Girl]

You think its a misrepresentation that revitalization has taken so long?  Even though all of the business people who have opened and closed in the neighborhood are all saying the same thing? And there are now fewer businesses than at any other time in the history of the neighborhood?

Well awesome.


No, I think it was a misrepresentation that a handful of people have poisoned the groundwater and caused revitalization to stall. The businesses that have gone under did not do so because a handful of people didn't support them. If a business offers a good or service that people want they will succeed as has been proven by Hola, The Pearl, Three Layers, The Cellar, Shantytown and Wafaa and Mike's to name a few. Many of the businesses that shut down did so because of owners lack of finances or business knowledge. I'm tired of hearing everthing and everyone being blamed for the failure of businesses except the business owners.  As far as new businesses being denied I can't think of many. In the few cases I can think of, different neighboring residents have opposed uses close to them, which is their right. I would never try to tell anyone that they should accept a use next to them that they find undesirable.

[Springfield Girl]

^As he should have.  I think everyone should go through the process. 

I do think there's quite a bit of room for improvement regarding the process, however.

I can agree that there is room for improvement but ignoring the process completely is not my idea of improvement.

[thelakelander]

Lake, I didn't see any carwashes in the pictures you posted of great walkable neighborhoods.
Jason, The drawing you have done is great but how can we guarantee that the owner will use the plan and incorporate your ideas?

Don't tempt me, because you know I can find more than one.  I can even provide you with a couple examples of walkable gas stations.  Anyway, the images aren't about car washes.  They are about urban design and a response to the claim that people would be more in favor of the project if it had direct access to Main instead of 4th.  That's baloney.

[zoo]

Lake, I would like to see the images (and that isn't temptation, just a request). At one time, I lived in a very walkable community that had a few car washes like the earlier pics you posted. I have to tell you that I didn't live right next to them, so from a noise perspective, they didn't bother me. And the stores attached to them sold greeting cards, air fresheners, travel mugs, floor mats and periodicals. The people spent money inside, then sat outside waiting for their cars. The people sitting outside did give a it feeling not unlike the porch in front of 3rd & Main. The cars lined up all over the place drying and waiting to be driven off gave it a feeling not unlike United Cars b/w 2nd & 3rd. Again, not saying I'm for or against, just describing what I've seen before.

The businesses that have gone under did not do so because a handful of people didn't support them. If a business offers a good or service that people want they will succeed as has been proven by Hola, The Pearl, Three Layers, The Cellar, Shantytown and Wafaa and Mike's to name a few. Many of the businesses that shut down did so because of owners lack of finances or business knowledge. I'm tired of hearing everthing and everyone being blamed for the failure of businesses except the business owners. As far as new businesses being denied I can't think of many. In the few cases I can think of, different neighboring residents have opposed uses close to them, which is their right. I would never try to tell anyone that they should accept a use next to them that they find undesirable.

Ditto.

[thelakelander]

Sure.

Here are a few examples of car washes in urban settings.

Palm Springs

http://rickrockhill.blogspot.com/2008_06_01_archive.html

Alhambra Car Wash-Los Angeles

http://modernretrowoman.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/carwash-300x225.jpg

NYC

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/66012461_c24867561f.jpg?v=0

Miami
This bistro is located at a car wash complex in Miami



Then here is an interesting set up

Carwashes find success with specialty coffee drive-throughs

In the July 2002 issue, Modern Car Care featured Tacoma, Wash. carwash owners John and Diane Simchuk, the owners of Sprague Avenue Carwash.

The Simchuks location was unique because of a drive-through espresso business at the self-serve carwash.

Sprague Avenue Carwash is located in the greater Seattle area, the international Mecca for specialty coffee. That’s why making a sizeable investment by entering into the specialty coffee business seemed like a natural profit center addition to the Simchuks.

full article: http://www.moderncarcare.com/Articles/541feat4.html


All of these examples come from a quick google search on car washes.  I'm sure if I actually put some time into it, I could come up with a lot more. 

First, I must say, I have no pity for anyone who moves next to a commercial property (its been a car wash since 1955) and then complains about traffic, noise or a commercial use going in on the site.  I put them in the same category as those who move next to airport runways and then complain about jet noise and traffic.  Does anyone do Due Diligence these days when making a real estate investment?

What kills me about this Silas Jones issue is that the existing vacant facility was built as a car wash and has been on site since 1955.  Main Street is not Rodeo Drive and the property really has no value outside of it being a car wash.  So if we want to see something positive happen with it now (personally, I'd like to see all vacant properties filled along Main ASAP), its basically going to be a car wash (he already has $500k in equipment in it now) or sit vacant long term.

Main has enough vacant and blighted properties.  Why must people draw a line in the sand instead of working to find common ground that benefits all?  The community should be working with the owner and creativity to improve the site and better integrate the use into the commercial district and surrounding area.  Something as simple as a landscaped site and buffer along with something like a nice seating courtyard between the auto accessory retail store and sidewalk would be a great addition to one of Main Street's most desolate commercial properties.

For those who don't understand how this can benefit a walkable commercial district, it has been stated in this thread before.  People attract people.  The more you can pull into a compact setting, the larger the market is for a variety businesses to cater to that population.  People using the facility are potential additional customers to the restaurants, service and retail shops in the surrounding area that everyone desperately wants.  More business and life only helps Main become the viable commercial district everyone wants it to be.  Leaving it as a blighted vacant property does exactly the opposite.

However, instead of taking a risk at getting better utilization out of the property, people are willing to keep it at the lowest and most devastating denominator.  Blighted, vacant and poorly maintained.  All I can say is, its unfortunate.  Not only to the owner, but also those who really want to see a vibrant commercial district bloom.

[thelakelander]

At one time, I lived in a very walkable community that had a few car washes like the earlier pics you posted. I have to tell you that I didn't live right next to them, so from a noise perspective, they didn't bother me. And the stores attached to them sold greeting cards, air fresheners, travel mugs, floor mats and periodicals. The people spent money inside, then sat outside waiting for their cars. The people sitting outside did give a it feeling not unlike the porch in front of 3rd & Main. The cars lined up all over the place drying and waiting to be driven off gave it a feeling not unlike United Cars b/w 2nd & 3rd. Again, not saying I'm for or against, just describing what I've seen before.

Going back to relating a car wash to a walkable or vibrant commercial district.

How would you know the people using that car wash did not patronize a nearby business before or after their stop at those car washes?  How would you know if they were/or not exposed to something in those districts because of using those car washes?

Over the years, I've used car washes quite frequently at times.  As a user, I have stopped and purchased things from nearby businesses either on my trip to or from those facilities.  After a hot day of washing a car or two, I've also stopped to eat at places in the immediate area.  On those days and trips, if it were not for the car wash pulling me into those neighborhoods, my money would have went somewhere else.  I would not imagine Springfield being any different.

Anyway, I believe, through creativity and design, a facility could be put into place that would be better than the current situation.  Really, when you think about it, it can't get any worse than the current situation.

Looking at the proposed site plan, cars would park on the sides of the facility.  The United Auto example would go away through good landscaping and buffering.  That leaves the front.  A nice seating area would give you the 3rd & Main effect.  That's the part that would be seen from immediate public view.

[cindi]

correct me if i am wrong, if mr. jones is denied the exception for the car wash with small store that would NOT sell singles (etc) he could, without exception or blessing open up a convenience store immediately and sell singles and all the wonderful wares of many of our existing finer convenience stores.  if he does that instead, you may very well find yourself wishing you actually were living inside the car wash.
we know what an overgrown empty abandoned lot looks like driving down main street, how many people stop for those? even if the car wash generated only a couple of customers a day, that is the potential for a couple more that isn't there now. 
ok, so car washes  are a long way from Saks, but it's more that what is there now.  FYI, in Sarasota there is a CarWash that actually shares a parking lot with Saks (the CarWash was there first) and both seem to do just fine.

[sheclown]

Has anyone contacted Dr. Gaffney and asked him to speak up for the Car Wash?

[thelakelander]

correct me if i am wrong, if mr. jones is denied the exception for the car wash with small store that would NOT sell singles (etc) he could, without exception or blessing open up a convenience store immediately and sell singles and all the wonderful wares of many of our existing finer convenience stores.  if he does that instead, you may very well find yourself wishing you actually were living inside the car wash.

Yes, under the existing zoning overlay out of spite he could open a real convenience store instead of a car wash with a car accessory retail store.

[Karl_Pilkington]

FYI, in Sarasota there is a CarWash that actually shares a parking lot with Saks (the CarWash was there first) and both seem to do just fine.

oh yeah, corner of 41 and Bee Ridge, Johnny's car wash has been there forever and you know just down the road is one of the best BBQ joints around, The Oaks Open Pit, that place serves up some fine eats. 

[thelakelander]

Good question.  I don't think the exact era has really been defined.  Even if you narrow it down to pre-1930s, the Springfield of the 1920s was a completely different place and atmosphere than the Springfield of the 1910s or 1880s.

[Springfield Girl]

Lake, I was refering to the pics you used earlier. None of the new ones look anything like the earlier pictures you posted and only one of the new pics looks like an urban setting. Three of them show no surrounding buildings for reference and one has mountains in the background.
Matt, I would hope we would try to preserve the good history. Springfield has had a history of prostitutes and drug dealers too. Would you like to preserve those? Cindi, I suppose Mr. Jones could open a convenience store there if he built a new building. I don't see how the carwash shell could be used as a convenience store without a major renovation/additon.   

[Johnny]

He would be able to afford to do the renovation/addition if he sold the $500k worth of equipment, which if the neighborhood blocks it, he may do it out of spite. Heck, he wouldn't even have to make it pretty to do something like that, probably $10k, it could be open bays with cigarettes, malt liquor & lotto being the hot items. Add in some food products that create lots of litter & cater to those that loiter as much as possible.

[Springfield Girl]

Good luck with that. In this market I can't see anyone dropping 500k for carwash equipment. It would take a lot more than 10k to have that site operational as a store.