National High-Speed Rail Program

[tufsu1]

Here's a good article on the national scope of high-speed rail....pay particular attention to the statements about or implied about Florida....including the last paragraph!

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/10/22/22greenwire-high-speed-rail-effort-proceeds-with-caution-77408.html?pagewanted=3

[JeffreyS]

That link is to the last page of the article here it is from the start.
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/10/22/22greenwire-high-speed-rail-effort-proceeds-with-caution-77408.html?pagewanted=1

Good article. How about Corrine fighting for Jax good job.

[CS Foltz]

I agree with the concept of HSR but have to question the so-called Florida plan! Somehow the idea of 168 mph on a 88 miles stretch seems a bit farfetched. Something that is multi-ton in weight just will not stop on a dime so they can talk all they want......simple physic's says it ain't so Joe! This kinda of out in left field statement is what has gotton Florida nothing but talk or lip service!

[tufsu1]

sorry...I think I'll rely on what the engineers tell me on this one CS.

[Ocklawaha]

Ultimately, the decision won't be as simple as how fast the trains move. FRA officials and many in the transit community have echoed Obama in saying that it is pointless to move people from one city to another if they have few options for navigating the streets of their destination once they arrive.

The "last mile" issue would appear to level the playing field between those incremental proposals that link cities with robust transit systems and those that have the ability to build new lines but lack existing comprehensive local transit infrastructure.

"If we have small segments that are not connected, that don't interface with public transportation or airports or our highway system in a logical, rational network way, it's not going to make sense," Rae said. "We're not going to build rails to nowhere."

Note to self, "Be sure to contact each JTA - TPO executive/staff, Mayor, and Council member, to thank them for their support of our Skyway, during the one time in it's entire life span where we had a shot at federal bucks to finish it. Also for requesting those funds to complete a streetcar starter system, and for backing the Federal efforts on the FEC, and AMTRAK FLORIDA..."  Like they say in Jacksonville, Washington D.C. and other first and second tier cities around the globe, mulimodalism is where it's at, it is our only possible sustainable future step.

JACKSONVILLE TIME TO PULL YOUR HEAD OUT!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Ock.........I concur with the concept of that "last mile" connection philosophy! A stand alone system does nothing for moving persons without the infrastructure located at the stop points! Wether it is bus's or light rail there has to be something unless the passengers are authorized to "Thumb" to their destinations! I just got struck by a question regarding AGV Trains which run at around 200 mph..........would you know just how many miles it takes to stop one running at full speed? I have tried to find some information regarding that and come up empty so far.......I am going to continue to look but thought you might know off the top of your head!

[CS Foltz]

Ock.........found the "AGV" Website and full of information regarding power systems,articulation and the like. 360 kph translates into around 220 mph but still have not found any information regarding stopping! Now that would be not an emergency stop but a normal slowing to stop......I am curious as to the amount of feet or miles. Even in a large configuration (25 cars appears to be maximum) you do not stop on a dime and give change. Friction coefficient on wet steel to wet steel  is not the worlds greatest.....add wet leaves or natural plant material and it would become even worse and that is not taking into consideration temperature differentials  such as frozen due to snow or low temperatures Lots of variables to look into and I have just started!

[CS Foltz]

For those interested I went to Wikipedia...........typed in AGV all caps and look for the trains.....you get all kinds of information but no stopping info!

[tufsu1]

try typing in a few European high speed lines...like France's TGV system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV

or Germany's ICE system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity-Express

A quick review showed me that on the highet speed lines, there are stations as close as 50km which translates to around 30 miles.

The TGV site also talks about the fact that many of their routes skirt the city centers and travel through the suburbs so that speeds can be maintained.

Also note that one of Germany's high speed lines goes from Koln to the Frankfurt Airport....a distance that is similar with Tampa to OIA!

[CS Foltz]

tufsu1......much thanks for the links! Very informative and very thought provoking! It makes the Orlando proposed system look even worse than my gut feeling on it the first time. Turn radius's would be nominal for true HSR based upon what I saw and with no level crossings at any point creates other crossing/transfer issue's! Proximity to I-4 raises questions about crash room not only for a HSR but traffic traveling on that corridor also! Don't get me wrong...........we need to start somewhere and I am sure that the engineering end is nothing but a slide rule away (sorry....scientific calculator) but I am still unconvinced Orlando is the best place to start. I am a firm believer in making use of what is on hand as in enhancing what we have right now at this point in time. FEC/Amtrak partnership looks to be most cost effective for what dollars it would cost and would love to have true HSR........I was drooling looking at what the old country had in place and the speeds that AGV or TGV or ICE1 & 2/3.....all of them electric and state of the art and all of them travel at high speeds....lucky dog's! Florida needs something along those lines for sure and more than likely will have to be built from scratch........but till we can get that option in action I would still have to go with enhancing what we have available!