do you really know your neighbor?

[mandy6488]

You have already stated that some of the laws are too stringent.
But if the law isn't changing, then unfortunately people need to abide by them.

I grew up in NJ where there were similar laws keeping a 16 yr and a 17 yr from banging like Jack Rabbits... why is there the whole "is she legal?" joke/comment?  If a 19 yr old guy decides to date a 17 yr old girl.. well he needs to take the situation a bit more seriously. It is what it is....

I dated a 17 year old when I was 19...and we did "stuff".. guess I'm a sex offender who just didn't get "caught"!

[stephElf]

Anyway, you win. I'm exhausted.  Some of the laws are retarded...people have to decide whether or not it's worth it to them, which laws they follow and don't follow.

[ChriswUfGator]

So (2) 13 yr olds can have sex? Or it has to be 16 and over...

As long as they are both 16, or 17, or 18, etc...

but not a 16 yr old and a 17 yr old... well until it changes, it is something people need to be aware of. You sound like you are suggesting people blatantly DON'T follow the law because it is unfair.

There are a couple breakpoints. Which is one of the things that's so unbelievably stupid. The latest iteration of these asinine laws provides that a 16 or 17 year old can already have sex with someone up to age 24, without it being considered a crime. So like I've said repeatedly, the religo-nazi "age of consent" horse has already left the barn.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0794/SEC05.HTM&Title=-%3E2006-%3ECh0794-%3ESection%2005#0794.05

But a 15 year-and-11-month old and a 16 year old, or any other combination you can think of involving anyone over and under that arbitrary break point = "sex crime". A 24 year old and someone who is 17 years, 11 months, and 29 days old, = sex crime. Meanwhile, two 15 year olds = no crime.

It's all unjust. What's worse, they change these laws all the time, almost every two years there is some revision that makes these things even more asinine than before.

[stephElf]

I dated a 17 year old when I was 19...and we did "stuff".. guess I'm a sex offender who just didn't get "caught"!

Ok, so using that as an example. Did you know the law at the time? Where you worried at all that the person had psycho parents that might want to contact authorities if they knew activities had taken place?  If I was kid here and knew these laws I would honestly be scared sh!tless and not want to deal with the situation at all...

[ac]

So, legal discussion aside, can we boil this thread down to:

Be aware of your surroundings, meet your neighbors, preach "stranger danger" = Good; Make assumptions about people without researching, or spy on them = Bad?

[ChriswUfGator]

You have already stated that some of the laws are too stringent.
But if the law isn't changing, then unfortunately people need to abide by them.

I grew up in NJ where there were similar laws keeping a 16 yr and a 17 yr from banging like Jack Rabbits... why is there the whole "is she legal?" joke/comment?  If a 19 yr old guy decides to date a 17 yr old girl.. well he needs to take the situation a bit more seriously. It is what it is....

I dated a 17 year old when I was 19...and we did "stuff".. guess I'm a sex offender who just didn't get "caught"!

If that happened prior to 2005, then yeah, you were probably a "sex offender". Good god, someone call the cops!

[mandy6488]

I dated a 17 year old when I was 19...and we did "stuff".. guess I'm a sex offender who just didn't get "caught"!

Ok, so using that as an example. Did you know the law at the time? Where you worried at all that the person had psycho parents that might want to contact authorities if they knew activities had taken place?  If I was kid here and knew these laws I would honestly be scared sh!tless and not want to deal with the situation at all...

I dated a 17 year old when I was 19...and we did "stuff".. guess I'm a sex offender who just didn't get "caught"!

Ok, so using that as an example. Did you know the law at the time? Where you worried at all that the person had psycho parents that might want to contact authorities if they knew activities had taken place?  If I was kid here and knew these laws I would honestly be scared sh!tless and not want to deal with the situation at all...

Yep, I knew the law and just didn't care. I was hanging out with someone i liked having a good time. That's all there was to it.

Just like I know I'm supposed to cross only at crosswalks but I say EFF THAT and cross wherever I want! And if I get a ticket for that, I'm going to be grumpy as hell because doing that didn't hurt me or anyone else!

Anyway, my offense to this whole topic is applying the term baby raper to a whole group of people and saying non of them can be rehabilitated. That's just crap to me. There are a whole groupppppp of bad scary people but not EVERYONE listed on those sites is an evil person out to do bad.

[mandy6488]

You have already stated that some of the laws are too stringent.
But if the law isn't changing, then unfortunately people need to abide by them.

I grew up in NJ where there were similar laws keeping a 16 yr and a 17 yr from banging like Jack Rabbits... why is there the whole "is she legal?" joke/comment?  If a 19 yr old guy decides to date a 17 yr old girl.. well he needs to take the situation a bit more seriously. It is what it is....

I dated a 17 year old when I was 19...and we did "stuff".. guess I'm a sex offender who just didn't get "caught"!

If that happened prior to 2005, then yeah, you were probably a "sex offender". Good god, someone call the cops!

Well I'm 31 now so...  =D   It was around  late 1997, early 98. I am a terrible person..  Throw my name up on the sex offender webiste.

[stephElf]

I already brought up the jaywalking point.

But the ramifications for the sex offender stuff is way worse then getting a ticket...

I agree, the law is retarded... but it would scare me enough to follow it (if I was aware of it)... which I am guessing most people aren't? Not sure...

[stephElf]

No one is arguing that there aren't sex offenders who are mis-labeled or that some of them aren't scum.

But, some of them are.

[nvrenuf]

After researching age of offender, offense and date of adjudication and then allowing for a couple years to work through the court system, these are the ones that I came up with in the general proximity of Hist Spr who I believe Cindi is referring to. If you have children, I would be aware of these addresses and these faces. Except maybe Yvonne who it sounds might have flashed someone at the wrong time when kids were around. She was approx 35, at some point you need to consider the consequences. I see now that the links didn't include in my paste. If you want to know a specific link let me know and I will get it.

Chavlis Taiwaun Williams
Address: 1616 Silver St
Crime: Abuse Of Child,Eng Sex Perfm; F.S. 827.071(2) (Principal)
Date of birth: 1975-12-04
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
05/12/1999   ABUSE OF CHILD,ENG SEX PERFM; F.S. 827.071(2) (PRINCIPAL)
9902368   DUVAL, FL
Adjudication Withheld

Dale Harlan Benchoff
Address: 2504 N Laura St
Crime: Sex Bat By Adult/Vctm Under 12; F.S. 794.011(2) (Principal In Attempt); sex Bat By Adult/Vctm Under 12; F.S. 794.011(2) (Principal In Attempt)
Date of birth: 1949-05-05
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
09/26/1995   SEX BAT BY ADULT/VCTM UNDER 12; F.S. 794.011(2) (PRINCIPAL IN ATTEMPT)
9301121   PUTNAM, FL
Guilty/convict
09/26/1995   SEX BAT BY ADULT/VCTM UNDER 12; F.S. 794.011(2) (PRINCIPAL IN ATTEMPT)
9301099   PUTNAM, FL
Guilty/convict

Emory Carl Barnes
Address: 2058 N Market St
Crime: Sex Batt/Coerce Child By Adult; F.S. 794.011(2)(B) (Principal)
Date of birth: 1953-01-12
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
08/22/1991   SEX BATT/COERCE CHILD BY ADULT; F.S. 794.011(2)(b) (PRINCIPAL)
9106186   DUVAL, FL
Not Available

Eric Althea Lewis
Address: 1949 Hubbard St
Crime: Sex Bat/Inj Not Likely; F.S. 794.011(5); false Imprison Any Other; F.S. 787.02
Date of birth: 1956-02-21
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
07/26/2000   SEX BAT/INJ NOT LIKELY; F.S. 794.011(5)
9902007   ST JOHNS, FL
Guilty/convict
07/26/2000   FALSE IMPRISON ANY OTHER; F.S. 787.02
9902007   ST JOHNS, FL
Guilty/convict

Francis Joseph Suriano
Address: 205 E 1st St Apt 3
Crime: Lewd,Lascivious Child U/16; F.S. 800.04 (Principal)
Date of birth: 1952-12-12
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
04/05/2000   LEWD,LASCIVIOUS CHILD U/16; F.S. 800.04 (PRINCIPAL)
9401707   CLAY, FL
Not Available

George Howard Jones
Address: 1531 Ionia St
Crime: Sex Bat By Adult/Vctm Under 12; F.S. 794.011(2) (Principal In Attempt)
Date of birth: 1954-09-15
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
10/09/2001   SEX BAT BY ADULT/VCTM UNDER 12; F.S. 794.011(2) (PRINCIPAL IN ATTEMPT)
0108471   DUVAL, FL
Guilty/convict

Harry Lawrence Gordon
Address: 1924 Hubbard St
Crime: Lewd,Lascivious Child U/16; F.S. 800.04 (Principal)
Date of birth: 1957-12-15
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
12/03/1996   LEWD,LASCIVIOUS CHILD U/16; F.S. 800.04 (PRINCIPAL)
9612265   DUVAL, FL
Not Available

Henry Frank Smith
Address: 1153 Walnut St Apt 3
Crime: Sex Offense, Other State (Lewd Or Lascivious Acts With A Child Under 14)
Date of birth: 1952-01-30
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
08/24/1987   SEX OFFENSE, OTHER STATE (LEWD OR LASCIVIOUS ACTS WITH A CHILD UNDER 14)
CR88816   SAN DIEGO, CA    Guilty/convict



James Edward Carter
Address: 945 N Liberty St # 115
Crime: Sex Offense, Other State (Rape Of A Child)
Date of birth: 1953-01-26
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
10/03/1990   SEX OFFENSE, OTHER STATE (RAPE OF A CHILD)
Not Available   KING, WA    Guilty/convict

Jerald Oneal Cowart
Address: 239 W 10th St
Crime: Lewd,Lascivious Child U/16; F.S. 800.04 (Principal)
Date of birth: 1956-12-13
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
04/26/1996   LEWD,LASCIVIOUS CHILD U/16; F.S. 800.04 (PRINCIPAL)
9604062   DUVAL, FL
Adjudication Withheld

Jerome Watts Sr
Address: 1421 N Liberty St
Crime: Lewd Or Lascivious Conduct Victim Under 16 Years Old By Offender 18 Years Or Older; F.S. 800.04(6)(B (Principal)
Date of birth: 1968-09-13
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
09/06/2001   Lewd or lascivious conduct victim under 16 years old by offender 18 years or older; F.S. 800.04(6)(b (PRINCIPAL)
0103300   DUVAL, FL
Guilty/convict

Joe Nathan Walls
Address: 329 E 1st St # 202
Crime: Lewd,Lascivious Child U/16; F.S. 800.04 (Principal)
Date of birth: 1963-05-11
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
05/24/1996   LEWD,LASCIVIOUS CHILD U/16; F.S. 800.04 (PRINCIPAL)
9603482   DUVAL, FL
Not Available

Leon Caldwell
Address: 1507 Ionia St
Crime: Sex Bat By Adult/Vctm Under 12; F.S. 794.011(2)
Date of birth: 1963-02-12
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
05/20/2003   SEX BAT BY ADULT/VCTM UNDER 12; F.S. 794.011(2)
0302284   DUVAL, FL
Guilty/convict

Neil Christian Allen
Address: 1924 N Market St
Crime: Lewd Aslt/Sex Bat Vctm<16; F.S. 800.04(3) (Principal)
Date of birth: 1976-02-04
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
05/27/1999   LEWD ASLT/SEX BAT VCTM<16; F.S. 800.04(3) (PRINCIPAL)
9903919   DUVAL, FL
Not Available

Oliver Nelson Jr
Address: 1631 Hubbard St
Crime: Lewd Or Lascivious Battery Victim 12-15 Years Old; F.S. 800.04(4) (Principal)
Date of birth: 1940-08-28
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
06/28/2001   Lewd or lascivious battery victim 12-15 years old; F.S. 800.04(4) (PRINCIPAL)
0013321   DUVAL, FL
Guilty/convict

Ricardo Eugene Mathews
Address: 136 Phelps St Apt 4
Crime: Lewd,Lascivious Child U/16; F.S. 800.04; lewd,Lascivious Child U/16; F.S. 800.04 (Principal)
Date of birth: 1953-02-28
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
08/19/1993   LEWD,LASCIVIOUS CHILD U/16; F.S. 800.04
93008493   DUVAL, FL
Guilty/convict
08/25/1993   LEWD,LASCIVIOUS CHILD U/16; F.S. 800.04 (PRINCIPAL)
9308493   DUVAL, FL
Guilty/convict

Rodrick Keith Young
Address: 1912 Walnut St
Crime: Lewd Or Lascivious Battery Victim 12-15 Years Old; F.S. 800.04(4); sex Offnder Fail Comply Registration; F.S. 943.0435(9)
Date of birth: 1981-09-09
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
05/23/2001   Lewd or lascivious battery victim 12-15 years old; F.S. 800.04(4)
0105234   DUVAL, FL
Adjudication Withheld

Willie Charles Mccullough
Address: 1615 N Laura St
Crime: Lewd,Lascivious Child U/16; F.S. 800.04 (Principal)
Date of birth: 1944-11-15
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
12/07/1990   LEWD,LASCIVIOUS CHILD U/16; F.S. 800.04 (PRINCIPAL)
9012856   DUVAL, FL
Not Available

Willie James Moore
Address: 1031 N Liberty St
Crime: Sex Bat By Adult/Vctm Under 12; F.S. 794.011(2) (Principal In Attempt)
Date of birth: 1962-08-17
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
06/03/1997   SEX BAT BY ADULT/VCTM UNDER 12; F.S. 794.011(2) (PRINCIPAL IN ATTEMPT)
9212555   DUVAL, FL
Not Available

Yvonne Shavon Satterfield (perhaps she flashed her business around kids, at 35 she might have known better)
Address: 451 E 7th St
Crime: Lewd Or Lascivious Exhibition Victim Under 16 Years Old Offender 18 Or Older; F.S. 800.04(7)(C) (Principal)
Date of birth: 1965-06-29
Based on this official offender page
Adjudication Date   Crime Description    Court Case Number    Jurisdiction & State   Adjudication
05/09/2001   Lewd or lascivious exhibition victim under 16 years old offender 18 or older; F.S. 800.04(7)(c) (PRINCIPAL)
0100268   DUVAL, FL
Guilty/convict

[Dog Walker]

I don't know if this story is true or not, but it does serve to illustrate a point.  

A man in south Florida was playing golf with friends.  He was old enough to have some minor prostate problems.  He had an urgent need to relieve himself so he stepped off the course into the surrounding brush to do so.  A woman in a house next to the golf course saw him and called the police, telling them that a man was exposing himself behind her house.  He was arrested, convicted of the misdemeanor and is now a registered "sex offender".

[Dan B]

100+ "misunderstood" guys (and yes there are some women folk in that mix also) in 1 square mile is a whole lot of misunderstanding.  and yes i am well aware there are MANY cases of "wrong place, wrong "girl", but what is an "acceptable" age?  
obviously dan didn't jump to conclusions when he found out about the guy around the block that fell into the wrong place/wrong time.  back to the, get to know who lives around you.

And these online "registry" sites don't give you anywhere NEAR enough information to tell the difference.

I disagree.

Using my earlier examples, and the link I provided to the FDLE site, I learned the following

The Predator was only 20, but he was convicted of 794.011(3)  Commits Sexual Battery; Upon Person 12 Or Older Without Consent And In Process Threatens Or Uses Deadly Weapon Or Force Which Would Most Likely Cause Serious Personal Injury

(3)  A person who commits sexual battery upon a person 12 years of age or older, without that person's consent, and in the process thereof uses or threatens to use a deadly weapon or uses actual physical force likely to cause serious personal injury commits a life felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, s. 775.084, or s. 794.0115

(1)  As used in this chapter:

(a)  "Consent" means intelligent, knowing, and voluntary consent and does not include coerced submission. "Consent" shall not be deemed or construed to mean the failure by the alleged victim to offer physical resistance to the offender.

(g)  "Serious personal injury" means great bodily harm or pain, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement. 

(h)  "Sexual battery" means oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another or the anal or vaginal penetration of another by any other object; however, sexual battery does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose.

Winner #2 was 46 at the time of conviction and committed 794.011(2)(a)  Person 18 Or Older Commits Sexual Battery And/Or Injures Sexual Organs Of A Victim Less Than 12

(2)(a)  A person 18 years of age or older who commits sexual battery upon, or in an attempt to commit sexual battery injures the sexual organs of, a person less than 12 years of age commits a capital felony, punishable as provided in ss. 775.082 and 921.141.


(1)  As used in this chapter:

(h)  "Sexual battery" means oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another or the anal or vaginal penetration of another by any other object; however, sexual battery does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose.
794.011(2)(b)  Person Under 18 Commits Sexual Battery Upon Or Injures Sexual Organs Of A Victim Less Than 12

(2)(b)  A person less than 18 years of age who commits sexual battery upon, or in an attempt to commit sexual battery injures the sexual organs of, a person less than 12 years of age commits a life felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082,s. 775.083, s. 775.084, or s. 794.0115.


(1)  As used in this chapter:

(h)  "Sexual battery" means oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another or the anal or vaginal penetration of another by any other object; however, sexual battery does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose.

and the last person was 40 at the time of conviction and was convicted of 800.04  Lewdly Fondle Or Assault, Commit Or Simulate Sexual Acts On Or In Presence Of A Child Under 16 In A Lewd, Lascivious Or Indecent Manner

A person who: 

(1)  Handles, fondles, or assaults any child under the age of 16 years in a lewd, lascivious, or indecent manner;

(2)  Commits actual or simulated sexual intercourse, deviate sexual intercourse, sexual bestiality, masturbation, sadomasochistic abuse, actual lewd exhibition of the genitals, or any act or conduct which simulates that sexual battery is being or will be committed upon any child under the age of 16 years or forces or entices the child to commit any such act; 

(3)  Commits an act defined as sexual battery under s. 794.011(1)(h) upon any child under the age of 16 years; or 

(4)  Knowingly commits any lewd or lascivious act in the presence of any child under the age of 16 years, without committing the crime of sexual battery, commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. Neither the victim's lack of chastity nor the victim's consent is a defense to the crime proscribed by this section. A mother's breastfeeding of her baby does not under any circumstance violate this section.


I would say there is plenty of information on the FDLE site.

[ChriswUfGator]

No one is arguing that there aren't sex offenders who are mis-labeled or that some of them aren't scum.

But, some of them are.

I agree with you on that, no argument there.

But we should all recognize that this particular state has a looooooooooong history of incredibly asinine laws and asinine law enforcement when it comes to this particular issue. These laws change almost constantly, and contain these unjust "gotchas" that have literally created a whole category of "sex offenders" out of thin air. People who are now on a sex-offender registry for life, just for sending a text message, or because their girlfriend's birthday was a month behind theirs.

As even the JSO detective investigating the Somer Thompson murder noted in his TU interview just this morning, a good chunk of these people haven't really committed any "offense" at all. It's a legal fiction.

So my point was that, in this state, you really have be careful about painting them with so broad a brush. I originally took offense to the "baby raper" comment by Cindi, as I think it was a gross mischaracterization of the average person who finds themselves on that list. Given the legislative history on this issue, I suspect a nice big chunk of registered "sex offenders" in this state haven't done much that the average person would consider offensive.

[stephElf]

I understand that....

I'd be curious to see some real stats though...

i.e. 3 out of 10 offenders is baloney
5 out of 10 will not commit a crime again
2 out of 10 will be repeat offenders....

I still think the original gist of the person's post wasn't meant to be mean-spirited and more of re-ignite your street smarts comment...

You can also tell by the context that person was referring to scum-bags, not the wrongfully persecuted.

I guess now we are supposed to read and hear sex-offender as maybe-a-sex-offender. At least in FL.