Downtown retail surge brings more investors

[fsquid]

Isn't the Starbucks in Macclenny right next to I-10 at the Super Walmart? I would hardly call that Downtown Macclenny.

please don't confuse this discussion with facts

You certainly never do...

ouch

[ChriswUfGator]

Isn't the Starbucks in Macclenny right next to I-10 at the Super Walmart? I would hardly call that Downtown Macclenny.

please don't confuse this discussion with facts

You certainly never do...

ouch

Well you kind of have to know the history on this issue. For what must be five or six years now, Tufsu has been running around defending the policies that wrecked downtown, primarily because he and his company were riding the government gravy train. He argued there was no problem with parking policies, even as company after company moved to the suburbs citing that as the reason. Every time another small business closed, he would bash the owner of the business, saying its their own fault and they didn't know how to run a business. That's despite the fact that some of them actually wrote open letters about the city's policies being the reason they were leaving.

When people pointed out a few years back that downtown had become deserted, Tufsu jumped in with bogus figures claiming there were 51k workers there. The debate wound up showing there were more like 10% of that number and falling, and DVI had to come out in response to the embarrassment afterwards and admit that it's own figures had been bogus. So I guess Tufsu did unintentionally accomplish something on that one. Then Downtown used to have scores of restaurants up through the 90s, and when people lamented that they had left, Tufsu denied it and touted a list that infamously included the Winn-Dixie and a drive-thru fast food place as dining options. And even then, most of the other establishments on his list have since closed.

As you witnessed in this thread, when confronted with the reality that we're the only city of this size in the nation whose downtown can't even support a Starbucks, and that's despite giving it free rent, Tufsu of course rides in to claim that it's due to everything other than the actual reasons. Now that it's becoming harder and harder to obfuscate and deny reality, as downtown has continued its slide to the point where it looks like Raccoon City after the outbreak, Tufsu's just getting the dose of reality that's been coming to him for years, from the rest of us who've been treated as heretics for saying there's a problem and we should fix it.

[fieldafm]

Isn't there still a Starbucks in the Aetna Building?

[fsujax]

There was as of two months ago.

[ChriswUfGator]

Well Starbucks certainly hasn't heard about it, according to their store locator. Or are we talking about one of those independent coffee stands that just serves Starbucks coffee? If that's the case there's also a Starbucks in my house this morning. And the Aetna (Prudential) building is on the south bank anyway, not the core.

[thelakelander]

I just looked at their locator.  Either it closed or the Starbucks near Avenues Mall on Southside Boulevard or it's also missing.

[fsujax]

i think it is more like a Kiosk, that serves Starbucks, it isnt an actual storefront.

[tufsu1]

primarily because he and his company were riding the government gravy train.

I really wish this was true....sadly I haven't done any work for the City of Jacksonville in the last six years.

[tufsu1]

I just looked at their locator.  Either it closed or the Starbucks near Avenues Mall on Southside Boulevard or it's also missing.

it is still there

[simms3]

Maybe what it boils down to is despite the fact that Maxwell House has big operations in the city and the smell of roasting coffee permeates the morning air all across town, Jacksonvillians just aren't big coffee drinkers!!  Haha kidding, but seriously I want to know where downtown office workers get their coffee!

It shouldn't just be about Starbucks or independent shops, it's lamo if the only choices are lobby coffee stands or your office break room...where do people meet in the morning?  What's the office culture like?  Discussing peer cities only, when I visit Nashville or Austin I get a real hustle and bustle vibe in their CBDs, where there are plenty of coffee shops, independent breakfast places with local coffee roasters, and just a scurrying of office workers everywhere.  Is there a morning "rush" like that in Jacksonville?  Are there bars after business hours that are then packed with courthouse and office workers (like there are in Nashville and Charlotte)?

We can talk about residents and retail til we're blue in the face, but as an office submarket is there an office culture?  There's always something interesting about various cities' office cultures (at least to me).  A dense office district can actually put a lot of people on the sidewalks and create demand for certain segments of retail!

Here in Atlanta we have men's suit stores in DT/MT (Jos. A Bank just opened up a large Peachtree storefront downtown that looks more like a Brooks Brothers, Brooks Brothers is going in Midtown, local store H. Stockton is already Midtown, and even Men's Wearhouse is trying to sign a lease on Peachtree).  Hey it's not glorious, but again is indicative of the "office culture".  Similar things happening in Charlotte.

[simms3]

I guess my long winded question is:

Is downtown a 9-5 place strictly, or is it more of an 8-7 place.  A good office submarket can actually be more than just a 9-5 place and hours of vibrancy can be extended.  We should nail that part down first and then perhaps go for the residents and the retail.

[tufsu1]

primarily because he and his company were riding the government gravy train.

I really wish this was true....sadly I haven't done any work for the City of Jacksonville in the last six years.

I'm sorry to ask this.  But when you say this do you mean, you personally have not worked, or do you mean your company?  And would that exclude fdot work that is being done within Jacksonville city limits?

my company has done very little (if any) work with the City itself since I've been in Jacksonville (6 years)....we've also done little to nothing with JTA....as for FDOT contracts for work inside the City, I'm only aware of one and its for resurfacing design.

[fsujax]

Simms, there is no activity Downtown. the 3,000 workers leave at 5pm. then it's a ghost town. I dont know how any business survives, there obviously is no demand.

[ChriswUfGator]

Simms, there is no activity Downtown. the 3,000 workers leave at 5pm. then it's a ghost town. I dont know how any business survives, there obviously is no demand.

Well, they don't survive.

As has been noted, downtown is indeed a ghost town. Even Starbucks closed, despite free rent.

[thelakelander]

Maybe what it boils down to is despite the fact that Maxwell House has big operations in the city and the smell of roasting coffee permeates the morning air all across town, Jacksonvillians just aren't big coffee drinkers!!  Haha kidding, but seriously I want to know where downtown office workers get their coffee!

When I worked downtown at Ghyabi, Chamblins was my main spot.  If I wanted a full breakfast with my coffee, I'd head over to Desert Rider or Akel's.  If it were raining, I'd go underground to Benny's since that tunnel is accessible from the garage I parked in.  Early on, a couple of times I stopped by the coffee shop in the BOA Tower.  However, Chamblins eventually won me over because of their coffee card (buy 6 get one fee).  This week, I've started my mission to invest 40 hour work weeks into Metro Jacksonville to take it to the next level.  So far, I'm still stopping in Chamblins for my morning cup.