BRT vs. Commuter Rail

[tufsu1]

Here's an article on what's happening in Madison, WI....a relatively progressive college town/state capitol

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_d46c0601-b5cb-530d-b62c-6f7d3b02e76d.html

[fsujax]

Boy, you are going to start a firestorm now!

[tufsu1]

just providing information, not opinion!

[thelakelander]

Here was my opinion on this story that came to me in an email a couple of days ago.

They say you get what you pay for.  Both a Yugo and Camaro will get you across town and back but you'll enjoy the ride in one better and it's more likely to get you laid at the end of the day.  One you can pick up for a bucket of balls and the other may require you to keep a full time job or manage your money more wisely.

As predicted, when the comparison in this article is made, no thought or talk from the economic development and community sustainability point-of-view enters the discussion.  In this arena, BRT's "flexibility" drastically limits transit's ability to become a conduit of sustainable and transit supportive development.  I'm guessing the article was written from a transit planning perspective and not from the urban or community planning ideology.

While the Kansas City Max, which really operates more like an express bus on existing streets, has increased bus ridership, it has not had the level of transit related economic development that cities like Houston, Charlotte, San Diego, Salt Lake City, Austin and Denver have enjoyed with their new and proposed rail lines.  To my knowledge, Eugene, OR hasn't either.  If they are the projects being promoted to push BRT as a viable rail alternative, that's a huge indictment against this option.

As for Madison, I'm not too familiar with the physical make up of the community other than knowing the core is pretty dense.  Is their commuter rail proposal a "no-frills" project or one with a lot of bells and whistles added to the cost?  Given their size, do they really need one?

Even Portland has a mix of LRT, modern streetcar, heritage streetcar, commuter rail and buses.  The same goes for the most successful transit friendly communities.  Like I'm suggesting for the mobility plan, the "one size fits all" category does not work for transit.  While BRT could certainly make more sense for this transit corridor in Madison, given its population, if thoroughly evaluated and aligned with community visioning principles, the best plan could call for a mix of bus, commuter rail or streetcar along certain corridors.

At the end of the day, I think the transit community does itself a disservice by attempting to parade various forms of BRT as a cheaper alternative to rail.  It's not. They are two completely different animals that will bring different results to a community.  In the ideal case, they both work best when complementing the other mode, not replacing them.

Thoughts?

[CS Foltz]

Well I can see BRT being used a feeder for LR or Trolley. I don't care what the name is .....but rail is something that the current Administration has not said one thing or the other about! Most of the rank amatuers running this City have no vision or no plan but what do I know other than what one can see happening. Bus is not the answer to masstransit no matter what JTA in its infinite seems to say! FDOT does not know any better either!

[JaxBorn1962]

Here's an article on what's happening in Madison, WI....a relatively progressive college town/state capitol

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_d46c0601-b5cb-530d-b62c-6f7d3b02e76d.html

JTA has a roll to play with buses but not the only one. If csx does want to play along screw them The city of Jacksonville should find away to get (Mass Trans) on line and fast for if you think gas is staying at 2.38 a gallon your NUTS! Or we can stay behind the eight ball once again and keep getting hit!

[CS Foltz]

BRT is great .....if it is steel wheels on a track!

[JaxBorn1962]

Look having Rail or Trams doesn't stop not having Buses. Its like csx without Semi Trucks csx would be DEAD! Sure csx can ship more trailers but how does it get all that stuff to each and every business and home? By some form of TRUCK right. So I'm not saying get rid of the CITY BUS what I am saying is lets have both. And lets make the Bus service a lot better, have you tried the bus system here in Jacksonville? Try it on a Sunday and see how long it takes to get around.