High Speed Rail: A No-Brainer

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, for this short of a distance, is high Speed Rail a good application?

It seems like it might even be quicker to shoot people out of cannons.

I take it we have pissed Faye off, she isn't getting converts on a poorly planned HSR system, by attacking what will probably turn out to be the best idea in Central Florida's transportation history - SUNRAIL. While I do not agree with some of the promises being made and certain details of the plan, fact is Sunrail, will create more density, urban infill, TODS, and walkability to the communities it serves. HSR will do NONE OF THAT, not because it is HSR, but because it doesn't go where the people of Central Florida live, or where they are going.

That short segment Stephen, is crazy, why would you want a train that can accelerate to 200+ mph, to suddenly stop at the end of the "runway?" So it will leave OIA, get up to 50-60 mph, then stop at International Drive for the Convention Center Station. Then accelerate up to perhaps 100-110, before it slows and stops in RAT WORLD. Finally free of Orlando, the only thing that will get on that train is dust.

This is so typical of Florida and it's politicians, Faye included, to be placed under a spell of "free money," and being only too ready to suggest the end justifies the means. The means in this case being a plan for another train to nowhere.

American woman, mama let me be
Don’t come knockin’ around my door
Don’t wanna see your shadow no more
Coloured lights can hypnotize
Sparkle someone else’s eyes
Now woman, I said get away
American woman, listen what I say.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

has the planning and endless consultancy industry been identified by the feds yet?

Or are they waiting to get done with the bankers first?

yes...Architecture/Engineering firms are also an industry.

You may wish to do a google/wikipedia serch on Standard Industry Classification (SIC) codes

[tufsu1]

is 10 million dollar a mile the most that has ever been paid for rail in the history of the known world?

I'll bite....not even close.....new light rail lines often cost $10+ million per mile, not including ROW

That said, the article is somewhat misleading....one could argue that FDOT is spending $615 for 61.5 miles....but the truth is relocating CSX freight trains also enable commuter rail in the Tampa and Jax. regions....so the associated length might be closer to 150 miles!

[thelakelander]

Thats what I thought.  Of course thats something that Faye wouldnt have known.   Its just shoddy journalism and political jingoism given credence by a credulous writer.  Thats one of my favorite things from hanging out with you professional types.   I learn so much.

Why wouldn't Faye know?  Its been one of the major selling points of Sunrail to the rest of the Florida.  Plus, we've run a ton of articles on how Northeast Florida benefits from the Sunrail deal for years now.  Commuter rail aside, remember the whole Jax port rail capacity issue?  The money to pay for their planned intermodal railyard near the Mitsui and Hajin terminals will come from the Sunrail deal.  That plan also calls for a new freight rail bypass to go around the urban core, thus indirectly freeing up existing Northside rail lines for potential commuter use.

[CS Foltz]

Ock.....best plan to date! I think what you posted makes more sense that 2.5 Billion for HSR in the middle of the state without room to expand or tracks in place! I have already posted "make use of what we have, prove the concept and then expand"......not real comfortable with the Orlando region proposal not matter how it is slanted money,jobs or prestige wise! Now if we can get that 7.8 Million Dollar Grant......Katy bar the door!

[thelakelander]

Of course it makes sense.  Which is probably why it isn't the leading concept for introducing frequent intercity rail service in Florida.  Take that $2.5 billion and spread it around the state with a logical plan.  People in Jacksonville, Tallahassee, Melbourne, etc. need jobs and alternative transportation options too.

[Ocklawaha]

in the sense referred to in Fayes link of a colleague from the science magazine?

Unless there is some trailblazing work being done by a special laboratory based around a specific school of design, I would highly doubt it.

This is why I kept telling Faye, to quit posting "Science Progress", "The Orlando Mullet Wrapper,"
"Doc Dockery," "The Berkley Barb," "The Los Angeles Free Press," and "Happy Stem Cells" as source material for HSR. One could take a scattering of great scientists and political leaders from any point in history, stand them at trackside, and they couldn't figure out how to throw a switch! It's not a slam against them, I bet none of us would know how to work the compacter on the back of our neighborhood trash truck either. IT'S A LEARNED SKILL - WITHIN ONE OF TUFSU1 INDUSTRIES.

I have some special things from Japan, surrendered to my father at the end of WWII. I have a good friend with Japanese Television who would love to help me find the officers or their families. Since everything is in California, if we can find the occupation records and ships log for those days, we have a real shot at me returning things which to them MUST hold dear memories. In the process I have been swept up in reading every Japanese account of the war I can get my hands on. I'm saying this to drive home this point. You can read all the WWII history you want from OUR SIDE, and you still won't have a F'ing clue what was REALLY going on. GO TO THE SOURCE! Stephen, you are right on about your source material.

Frankly these exchanges with Faye have worried me. To think someone so closed to any argument because bringing home 2.5 Billion to blow on a useless railroad would get her in office? Or keep her in office? I'd rather vote for someone who does their homework and is willing to consider and research the data that others have collected. MJ has a bunch of Professionals, in Transportation, Planning, Urban Planning, Parks, Ecology, Media, etc...  While our presentation might not be as smooth as Science Progress or the TU, I bet our messages carry 10x the weight. Like you said LAKE, "Why wouldn't Faye know?" It's simple, she has Skyway Syndrome, don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Ouch.........Faye means well but can not see the forest for the tree's! Orlando is not the best place for true HSR but a hybrid Mouseville feeder system. Somehow I just don't think the taxpayers (US) would be getting the money's worth. For HSR to really shine.......there has to be a distance covered in a reasonable amount of time and I don't mean 73 miles worth.......we need a platform to substantiate HSR.....local systems are just that,to serve a local area or inter-urban not a city to city system! Amtrak appears to have an idea on what to do and how to do it!

[Dog Walker]

High speed rail in a corridor that is less than 100 miles long is plain dumb.  An "interurban" line with a lot of separate cars and high frequency would make much more sense.

Now, a HSR line from Miami up the West coast, Naples, Sarasota, Bradenton, Tampa and an East Coast line, Jacksonville, Daytona, Melbourne, West Palm Beach, Miami...these would make sense!

[CS Foltz]

Dog Walker......I concur! That makes much more sense then what was proposed for the Orlando region! I still say expansion from both ends would be a yomoma and expensive to boot! HSR is for Hgh Speed Rail and a 73 miles stretch would not let anything get up to a high speed and maintain that speed. Besides you gotta stop something and rigs traveling that fast will just not stop on a dime and give you change......takes several miles I would guess just based on simple physics!

[lindab]

Too bad guys you weren't giving so many expert opinions years ago when this project was getting off the ground. Thank goodness we are doing our part toward not increasing the federal deficit with such a wasted project.

[thelakelander]

No, at least not directly.  The nearest high speed rail stop will be at Orlando's airport's terminal on the northside from what I can tell.  Lake Nona is just south of the airport (the airport property is massive) along the Greenway.  From Lake Nona's location, you would have access to both the airport and Sunrail's proposed line via the Greenway.  In any event, regardless of if Sunrail or HSR comes, this project can happen.

Earlier this year, Governor Crist participated in the groundbreaking of Nemours Children’s Hospital at Lake Nona. Expected to open in 2012, the hospital plans to secure a $400-million pediatric medical campus that will strive to improve children’s health care, as well as create thousands of new jobs in Central Florida. Also in Lake Nona, a New Orlando VA Medical Center is scheduled to open in 2012. While an estimated 900 new jobs are expected to be created, the $650 million hospital also plans to have 134 inpatient beds, a 120-bed Community Living Center and a 60-bed Resident Rehabilitation Program. This million square foot facility will serve veterans in Brevard, Lake, Orange, Osceola, Seminole and Volusia counties. The new Burnham facility is 175,000 square feet and is one of the three LEED certified scientific buildings in Florida.

Four of these six counties will be served by Sunrail.  Only two by HSR and Osceola's HSR station is at Disney.  I doubt many veterans or employees at this facility will be living at the theme park.

[tufsu1]

Stephen, I mentioned this yesterday...and you scoffed at it as a valid industry

[thelakelander]

There's also a new university being built outside of Lakeland, near I-4 & the Polk Parkway.  It actually creates a problem for Lakeland.  Since HSR ignores existing development, its a good TOD site for HSR because USF Poly will be the main anchor.  However, its quite removed from the actual core of Lakeland and the other cities in Polk County.

[tufsu1]

yes..I reviewed this project for the City of Lakeland several years ago...generally they are in favor of it