FLORIDA EAST COAST TRAINS COMING!

[Ocklawaha]

"LET'S ROLL!"



The Florida State DOT has completed and submitted it's PRE-APPLICATION to the federal government for funding of the Jacksonville - Miami, Florida East Coast Route.

This is the line that crosses the river downtown, runs near Philips Highway to St. Augustine, and continues to hug the coastal areas all the way south. It hasn't had passenger service since 1968.

The Pre-Ap, has some interesting facts in it:

The request is for right-of-way (West Palm Beach), equipment, track improvements, signaling...everything.

The Florida East Coast is partnering with FDOT and AMTRAK to make this happen.

Track speed is estimated to be MAX. 90 mph.

The project includes TWO round trips per day.

Funding is sought for 8 new stations.

Parts of the formal application are done, others are not, much of it is just waiting to be updated from 2001 when this was tried under the BUSH "highway" administration.

They still plan to switch to the CSX in West Palm Beach, and tie into Tri-Rail connections, however our trains will go all the way into Miami.

JTA is on record with a supporting resolution, along with 66 others, mostly county and city governments. There are at least another 20 or so resolutions expected, (which are named) but the CITY OF JACKSONVILLE is MISSING as is DUVAL COUNTY... Hell we don't care, we just have the most to gain from this right?

The whole project is expected to be packaged and delivered to Washington, shortly.

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On another note there is a PRE-APPLICATION and a completed FORMAL APPLICATION for federal funding to purchase the 61 miles of the Central Florida Commuter Rail Corridor. This one is really juicy, in a typical FDOT is out of it's mind way.

Calls for every imaginable toy from Deland to Poinciana, then goes on to say it is part of the HIGH SPEED RAIL because people will travel on stage one (of the future Jacksonville - Orlando corridor) in regular Amtrak trains at 79 MPH, then get off in Orlando, where they will then take Light Rail to the Airport, then get off the Light Rail and transfer to the High Speed Line to Tampa. SAY WHAT? WTF?

So in a very weird sort of way, we are mentioned here and there throughout, but only as a sort of side note to the "real railroad". Funny thing is, they don't plan to connect their REAL RAILROAD (the HSR) to the rest of Florida's railroads. These folks obviously are suffering from Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

It doesn't mention the Orlando, or Tampa to Miami passengers in the Pre-Ap, one can only guess what those passengers are to do? Perhaps when they arrive in Orlando, change to Light Rail, change again to HSR finally getting  to the bullet train, someone will push them out the door as it speeds down I-4 between every city both north and south. As it streaks over Highway 27, the survivors will be loaded on a greyhound for Miami? Great plan. OOPS guess I shouldn't joke about this, next thing you know... well... this is FLORIDA after all.

BUT HAVE NO FEAR - THIS SEAMLESS SYSTEM WILL STOP FOR MICKEY MOUSE!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Sounds too good to be true Ock! Oops.....hope that's not the kiss of death? Should be a real benefit to our world but the hell with the Mouse.....letem get their own line.....they can afford it!

[thelakelander]

Here is a link to the article we ran on this in July.  You can read the pre-application for yourself:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-jacksonville-to-miami-passenger-rail-returning

[mtraininjax]

Funding is sought for 8 new stations - Just pile on the debt spending....

[CS Foltz]

There lies the problem......funding! No matter what system is used,pickup and departure points have to be added! There is plenty of rail out there and all of it travels into Jacksonville but nothing in the way of Stations exist. Rail was not considered a viable people moving conveyance but that preception appears to be changing. Urban area's were not and are not being planned to take that into account and once again.....lack of vision! One of these days someone might take that into account but I won't hold my breath!

[reednavy]

Funding is sought for 8 new stations - Just pile on the debt spending....

So I take it you're against this?

[aaapolito]

I travel from Jax to Boca Raton and Miami several times a year and I would take a high speed train option over driving every single time. 

[heights unknown]

Good.  It's about time.  Hope it comes to fruition and to operation.

Heights Unknown

[Ocklawaha]

Funding is sought for 8 new stations - Just pile on the debt spending....

There lies the problem......funding! No matter what system is used,pickup and departure points have to be added! There is plenty of rail out there and all of it travels into Jacksonville but nothing in the way of Stations exist. Rail was not considered a viable people moving conveyance but that preception appears to be changing. Urban area's were not and are not being planned to take that into account and once again.....lack of vision! One of these days someone might take that into account but I won't hold my breath!

This is being calculated against adding lanes to I-95 from Jacksonville to Miami. The road is at capacity now, and is becoming dangerous. More often then not it apes I-4, and somewhere between the Gateway City and the Neon of South Beach, your likely to have to park for an hour or more. In my experience in Florida, there are 3 roads that rank as the worst I have ever driven, and all three of them are I-4! I-95 is moving up on my list of horrible roads pretty darn fast.

I believe the State is looking for around $70 million to finance what will be two daily trains each way. They plan to do this as an alternative to I-95 expansion, which frankly can't be done for less then BILLIONS due to right-of-way constraints. That $70 Million is about what we could dump into a SINGLE I-95 INTERCHANGE.

Once the stations are up, and the equipment ordered, all it will take to expand round trips will be locomotives and cars. We could buy at least 7, 5 car train sets for another $70 Million. I hope we follow California's lead in equipment and get serious about an "AMTRAK FLORIDA".

Amtrak California Equipment



Many of the locomotives and cars used by Amtrak in California are common to the entire Amtrak system.  They are found on Amtrak's "Basic System" trains: California Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Southwest Chief, and Sunset Limited.

But as Caltrans and Amtrak continued their expansion plans in the 1980's,  it became clear that Amtrak would not be able to do so in California without outside help.  The major transportation bonds of 1990 and 1991 provided funds for the California Department of Transportation to design and build equipment for California service.

Most of Amtrak California service is operated with this fleet.  In order to meet continuing growth and demand for service, Caltrans has leased a number of reconditioned Superliner cars which have been painted in Amtrak California colors and operate with the original California Cars.  In addition, one round trip on the Pacific Surfliner route operates with other Amtrak equipment.



California Cars
Each of the 88 cars in the Amtrak California fleet is named for a prominent California physical feature. Cars in the 8000 series were the first order of equipment, which were delivered beginning in 1996.  The second series of cars (beginning with number 6000), began delivery in 2001 and continued into 2002. The cars are of four types:

Dining Cars -- Cars containing a galley for food preparation downstairs and table seating for passengers upstairs.
Cafe Coach -- Cars with coach seats upstairs, and a snack bar downstairs.
Baggage Coaches -- Cars with seating for passengers and storage space for luggage and package express.
Coaches -- Cars with coach seating only
Cab Cars -- Two types: coaches or baggage coaches from which the train can be operated. 



Locomotive type
The locomotives commonly known as California Locomotives were built by General Motors Electro Motive Division (EMD)  at the La Grange, Illinois and London, Ontario, Canada plants to specifications developed by the California Department of Transportation (Caltrans).


Their official designation is F59PHI , a streamlined and enhanced F59PH, a reliable and proven locomotive type. Maximum speed is 110 mph (177 km/h) from a single 3200 horsepower diesel electric power plant. Power for train lighting, heating and cooling does not come from this power plant, but from a separate plant generating 600 kilowatts of power.


Among the special features of this locomotive are a lightweight yet strong skin of composite materials and steel, fuel injection which results in low emissions (the cleanest burning diesel engines in America, some experts say) and reduced fuel consumption, and a cab isolated from the noise and jolting usually associated with locomotives.

The State of California Department of Transportation owns 15 of these locomotives, (and two General Electric Dash 8 locomotives purchased from Amtrak in 1994).   Amtrak and several commuter agencies also have purchased F59PHI locomotives. You may see them in service in other parts of the state and the nation.

mtraininjax, perhaps you and I could suggest a locomotive style and paint scheme for this new service?? hee hee!


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

This is being calculated against adding lanes to I-95 from Jacksonville to Miami. The road is at capacity now, and is becoming dangerous. More often then not it apes I-4, and somewhere between the Gateway City and the Neon of South Beach, your likely to have to park for an hour or more. In my experience in Florida, there are 3 roads that rank as the worst I have ever driven, and all three of them are I-4! I-95 is moving up on my list of horrible roads pretty darn fast.

Speaking of congested highways, I'd take I-4 during rush hour in Orlando over a congested I-95 in South Florida anyday.

As for the Amtrak/FEC project, Ock you're right.  A $70 million investment in a rail line between Jacksonville and Miami is a drop in the bucket compared to just about any major highway project.  The 46-mile Outer Beltway alone is roughly around $2.2 billion.  As a fiscal conservative, I find it comical how people talk about how expensive rail is but have no problem investing billions more in highway construction.

[tufsu1]

new highways cost at least $10 million per mile....and that doesn't includce bridges and interchanges!

[CS Foltz]

Gentlemen....I agree! Comparing cost for asphalt versus using rail that's already in place is a no brainer.....makes me wonder if Costco has an "Engine" cost plus deal or maybe we can strike a deal with the Canadians! Either way something needs to happen so I am glad that "Florida East Coast Trains are a coming"!

[Ocklawaha]

Gentlemen....I agree! Comparing cost for asphalt versus using rail that's already in place is a no brainer.....makes me wonder if Costco has an "Engine" cost plus deal or maybe we can strike a deal with the Canadians! Either way something needs to happen so I am glad that "Florida East Coast Trains are a coming"!

LOL! Costco geeze Louise

Actually, for the first time since the exit of Baldwin, Alco, Lima-Hamilton, and Fairbanks Morse, (leaving only EMD (GM), GE, and MLW - which was once Alco of Canada and went through names like a lizard with colors... Montreal - Studebaker - Worthington - MLW - Bombardier. Suddenly the market has changed and we have maybe from 5 - 10 old and new Locomotive builders in the market and each trying to find their own Niche. It should be a buyers market over the next few years and the new hybrids called "Gen-Sets" on the railroad are selling like hot cakes. Even tiny Brookville Locomotive Works, which for 100 years or so has built mine locomotives, and tiny 4 wheel dock switchers, suddenly is offering a full size line of Gen-Set road engines... Hey and they've got 100 years of experience to put into their product.

http://www.motivepower-wabtec.com/locomotives/commuter/mpxpress.php
http://www.getransportation.com/na/en/locomotives.html
http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/passen.jsp
http://brookvilleequipment.com/
http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-vehicles/automated-monorails?docID=0901260d8000a7e4
Just kidding STJR!
http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-vehicles/intercity-trains/multiple-units/am-96---belgium?docID=0901260d8000fc6c

That should be enough to give you an idea. If you, JTA, FDOT, etc... want a complete list I can work it up for you. Otherwise, this really does give one an idea of some of the cool new products that might be on the way to the Florida East Coast... But I still like that RED and Yellow paint!
Purple, Silver and Gold, was nice too! So was the deep forest green, cream and gold! and let's not forget the Green, Yellow and Orange of the old Citrus Scheme on the Seaboard!

JTA just for the record, and as an idea for the "S" line to the port, JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL used an
Orange and Blue scheme (God only knows where THAT came from!) Later engines were pretty solid Orange.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

If your talking about aircraft......got connections for that......Trains are something new for me. Color scheme and layout secondary to getting the silly thing in operation and making money! First one will be the key for sure to expansion.....enough riders and if it pays for itself then away we go!

[Ocklawaha]

The classic era of Jacksonville railroads

If your talking about aircraft......got connections for that......Trains are something new for me. Color scheme and layout secondary to getting the silly thing in operation and making money! First one will be the key for sure to expansion.....enough riders and if it pays for itself then away we go!

Like several of us have said on these forums, IT WILL NEVER PAY FOR ITSELF. At least not in dollars, however ANY income from rail is a better deal then the bottomless hole that we flush highway cash down.

As for the here and there remarks about colors and styles, sorry if I confused you. This is really just a bit of good natured fun that I'm tossing out for some grand old railroad buffs that read these pages. Memories of Jacksonville Terminal in it's hey days.

OCKLAWAHA