Real trains, not toys

[CS Foltz]

FayforCure....much thanks for the information! I did not know that but assumed FDOT was the controling party and have reservations regarding them! I am also not sure that Charlie is being up front with the prospects since his comments "Working with yada yada" are not a definitive stand on much of anything!Charlie, being the politician that he is, probably will not be definitive until enough people push for HSR. Hopefully not just the short line from Orlando's airport to Mouseville but a real system that would benefit all in Florida!

[tufsu1]

not quite true....the Florida High Speed Rail Authority is staffed by FDOT

[buckethead]

It's hard to for a novice such as myself to know who to believe. Where does one learn the truth in this matter?

Furthermore, it seems of little importance whether there is a separate entity with oversight of any project if those in control of HSR initiatives were appointed by FDOT.

When I see any big project proposed, my cynical side takes over. Trying to figure out who gets the contracts for building them, who is buying the land that will be used and so on, is impossible.

How many of these projects are used to enrich those in power and their supporters?

All?

[FayeforCure]

It's hard to for a novice such as myself to know who to believe. Where does one learn the truth in this matter?

Furthermore, it seems of little importance whether there is a separate entity with oversight of any project if those in control of HSR initiatives were appointed by FDOT.

When I see any big project proposed, my cynical side takes over. Trying to figure out who gets the contracts for building them, who is buying the land that will be used and so on, is impossible.

How many of these projects are used to enrich those in power and their supporters?

All?

Well yeah buckethead, that's the beauty of the internet,......a little searching can reveal the truth with NO FDOT involvement!!!:

Amendments to the Florida Constitution (pdf)
Florida High Speed Rail Authority Act (2002) (pdf)

As required by the Act, three appointments to the Authority are made by each the Governor, the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate. The initial appointments for the Governor were for four years, the House Speaker for three years and the Senate President for two years. Subsequent appointments by each official are for four year terms.

MEMBERS
Lee Chira - Chairman
(Re-appointed by Speaker of the House Johnnie Byrd - 2003)
President, Lee Chira and Associates, based in Orlando

John P. Browning, Jr. - Vice-Chairman
(Re-appointed by Speaker of the House Johnnie Byrd - 2003)
Florida Transportation Commission Member, President of Browning Packing Company, owner of St. Johns Expeditions, based in East Palatka

Leila Nodarse, P.E - Treasurer
(Re-appointed by Governor Jeb Bush - 2004)
President of Nodarse and Associates, an engineering firm specializing in environmental consulting, headquartered in Winter Park

Frederick Dudley
(Re-appointed by Governor Jeb Bush - 2004)
Former member of the Florida Senate and now an attorney based in Tallahassee

E.H. "Bill" Pitman, P.E.
(Appointed by Senate President Jim King - 2004)
Pitman Hartenstein and Associates, Jacksonville

Michael P. Harrell
(Appointed by Governor Jeb Bush - 2004)
Consultant with the Harrell Group

John Larkin
(Appointed by Senate President Jim King - 2004)
Alliance Capital Management Group, Orlando

C.C. "Doc" Dockery
P.O. Box 2805
Lakeland, FL 33806
863-665-6252
(Re-appointed by Senate President Jim King - 2004)
Author of the Florida High Speed Rail Constitutional Amendment

Donald Crisp
(Appointed by Speaker of the House Allan Bense - 2005)
Vice-President at First American Title Insurance Company

Denver Stuttler - Ex-officio
Secretary, Florida Department of Transportation


FORMER AUTHORITY MEMBERS

Heidi Eddins (Appointed by Governor Bush - 2001)

William Dunn (Appointed by President of the Senate Thomas McKay - 2001)

Norman Mansour (Appointed by Speaker of the House Tom Feeney - 2001)

Jennifer Closshey (Appointed by the House Speaker Johnnie Byrd - 2003)

http://flbullettrain.com/fhsra/5_railauthority.html

Mostly Republican appointees!

How many of these projects are used to enrich those in power and their supporters?

Quite true. The most avid supporter of Central Florida Commuter Rail had the Central Florida commuter rail run through his backyard.

[Ocklawaha]

It's hard to for a novice such as myself to know who to believe. Where does one learn the truth in this matter?

Well yeah buckethead, that's the beauty of the internet,......a little searching can reveal the truth with NO FDOT involvement!!!:

Easy Buckethead, go to: http://www.apta.com/Pages/default.aspx Just do a search this site on whatever mode you wish to review.

There are also advocacy groups around each mode:

BUS: http://www.busride.com/
BRT: http://www.nbrti.org/
LRT: http://www.vision42.org/
LRT: http://www.lightrailnow.org/
RAIL: http://www.narprail.org/cms/index.php
Skyway: http://www.monorails.org/

Quite true. The most avid supporter of Central Florida Commuter Rail had the Central Florida commuter rail run through his backyard.

That line is the funniest thing you have ever said on this site, a typical politicians spin to make the obvious seem somehow
conspiracy based.

Of course the most avid supporter of Central Florida Commuter Rail had the rail run through his backyard. I bet he was there when the South Florida Railroad was completed in December of 1883! He has lived there through the building of the Jacksonville, Tampa and Key West Railroad, The Plant System, The Atlantic Coast Line, Seaboard Coast Line, Family Lines, Seaboard System, and finally CSX. The idea that someone could support Central Florida Commuter rail, by making it jump off the CSX and pass by their house is simply a silly spin. He either lives by the track or he doesn't.

For a history of the South Florida Railroad, see my friend Donald Hensley's incredible railroad history website:
http://taplines.net/southflorida/southflorida He has published some of my material on the Ocklawaha Valley RR too!

Also if you still think this project is moving forward without the FDOT, I've got some swamp land for you.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

There lies the problem Ock! Even though passanger rail is a seperate Department FDOT is still overseeing anything that has to do with transportation period. That is an issue that will not go away and those asphalt lovers are set in their ways! Vision does not extend beyound their collective noses!

[Dog Walker]

"John P. Browning, Jr. - Vice-Chairman
(Re-appointed by Speaker of the House Johnnie Byrd - 2003)
Florida Transportation Commission Member, President of Browning Packing Company, owner of St. Johns Expeditions, based in East Palatka"

This guy is one of the most dangerous and outrageous people in the state.  Greedy, power mad, arrogant, above-the-law, sleazy are the nicest things people can say about him.  Any board he is on needs close watching and everybody needs to watch his property transactions.

[lindab]

He was the representative of the Goodman Co. of Palm Beach who had plans for putting a Walmart and various other big box stores in Pottsburg Swamp on the headwaters of Julington and Durbin Creek (aka Freedom Commerce Centre). Browning found a potato farm in Hastings to serve as mitigation for the Freedom Commerce swamp.

No doubt that is why he is valuable to the FDOT.

[lindab]

I met with Doc Dockery in the late 1990's when high speed rail line was first getting going. I truly believe he is a sincere proponent of rail. He has persisted through all the ups and downs of the Florida high speed rail idiot naysayers.

I couldn't say whether he has any financial gain from the system but there is no doubt that that central Fla. corridor carries some of the worst traffic in the state. Orlando, Lakeland, Altamaha Springs, Maitland are the prime examples of car oriented development gone wrong. Also much that traffic is tourist oriented headed to Mouseland and surrounding big revenue entertainment industry.

Doc's vision was a rail system which would get immediate public support by relieving the pressure on I-4 as well as provide the first foot in the door to get  higher speed rail in Florida.

[thelakelander]

There is nothing wrong with the vision.  The problem is the actual proposed plan.  It does not cater well for every day use by Central Florida residents.

[Ocklawaha]

There is nothing wrong with the vision.  The problem is the actual proposed plan.  It does not cater well for every day use by Central Florida residents.

I agree 100% Lake. Fact is, Doc sat at my table in the recent FRA HSR rollout in Orlando. His vision is more or less a sort of non-stop, flying train, all on exclusive right-of-way.

We (about 8 other transportation gurus) if he thought building into such an investment wouldn't be a wise move? He was pretty strong about his vision having nothing to do with Amtrak or (regular) trains. He also doesn't believe the State needs to "train" people to ride a statewide system, already in place, BEFORE we spend Billions on a new one. He seems to believe an old airline style hub and spokes system with Orlando, as the center of the universe, is the way to go. As for commuter rail, HA! He doesn't see a need beyond his flying train.

Sadly money talks, so logic and railroad history, what works and what doesn't, fails to mean a thing to him or his followers.

OCKLAWAHA

[obie1]

Lake is right. This needs to be useful in real terms.