This train is 64 years late!

[Ocklawaha]

The incredible model

Okay, does this post go under History? or under the transportation Headings? Neither or perhaps both? I'm not in the habit of making posts about toys, but this one is over the top. Collectors and would-be collectors or model railroaders have simply GOT TO SEE THIS!

Anyone with a parent, grandparent, uncle, aunt, or friend that worked for the old SEABOARD AIR LINE RAILROAD, has just found the gift to make tears well up in their eyes...

What's all the fuss about?


Baby Face giants on the Pennsy.

CENTIPEDES!

For the first time in 64 years, the men and women of the old Seaboard and it's neighbors have a chance to see, touch and hold a genuine Seaboard masterpiece. For railroaders, modelers and historians, this rare engine is the Holy Grail. In a time when diesels were still trying to unseat steam locomotives at a pace of about 1,000 horsepower each, Baldwin Locomotive Works and the Seaboard blew the industry away with a 6,000 HP beauty, that weighed in at 1.2 Million Pounds!

Here's the ad copy:

Freight scheme.

Baldwin produced the famous "Centipede" diesel locomotives during 1945-48, and sold them to three railroads (SAL, NdM, and PRR). The Centipedes were very large, 91 1/2 feet long, for single units as operated on SAL and NdM, and 183 feet long for semi-permanently coupled pairs as operated on the PRR. Each unit contained two 1500 horsepower diesel motors, so a pair contained four motors and totaled 6000 horsepower. Centipedes were heavy, totaling 1,200,000 pounds (1.2 million) for a pair, with more than 800,000 of those pounds carried by the 16 drivers. (Some content excerpted from the WWW). These spectacular diesel locomotives are a MUST-HAVE for an Pennsy diesel modeler as well as anyone who wants to showcase unique, premium quality on his layout. Don't miss these limited run diesel gems.

Paragon2: The new benchmark for premium HO sound-equipped locomotives. These locomotives feature the ALL-NEW Paragon2 sound and control system. Each Paragon2 locomotive comes with BLI's own integral DCC Decoder factory installed. Paragon2 locomotives offer Dual Mode DC and DCC operation with: superb back EMF motor control in DC and DCC, recordable DCC operation for automated playback, the same detail level as the original Paragon Series, and the familiar sturdy maroon box!

Industry-Leading Features:


The ALL-NEW Paragon2 Sound & Control System
Integral DCC Decoder with Back EMF for Industry-Best Slow Speed Operation in DC and DCC
Precision Drive Mechanism engineered for continuous heavy load towing and smooth slow speed operation
5-Pole Can Motor with Skew Wound Armature
Premium Caliber Painting with Authentic Paint Schemes
Prototypical Light Operation with Golden White LED Headlight
Operating Metal Knuckle Couplers
Factory Installed Engineer and Fireman Figures
Near-Brass Caliber Detail at a Plastic Price
Minimum Radius: 22" or greater recommended

Industry-Leading SOUND Features:


Operates in DC & DCC (use DCMaster for DC Sound)
Auto Pilot (ATS) - Records and plays back sound and movement for automatic operation (Macro Operation)
16-bit Sample Rate for exceptional high frequency sound clarity
Playback Whistle for multiple whistle lengths and patterns
Choice of 3 selectable Whistles / Horns
Alternate Whistle / Horn where applicable for locomotive with air horn and steam whistle - both the main whistle and alternate can be easily played
Adjustable bell ringing interval for faster or slower bell
Numerous user-mappable functions with available keys
Crew Radio Communications - Controlled with Function Key
Demo Mode for display and demonstrations
8 Diesel Motor Revs (Diesel Only)
Simple Programming with Integral DCC Decoder
Automatic Forward / Reverse Signal - When activated, stopping triggers and stop whistle toot. When moving forward from a stopped position, toots twice. When moving in reverse. toots three times.
Engine sound intensity varies with load
Individually adjustable sound volumes for each effect
EZ Reset Button for quick return to factory default settings

**Specifications on this page subject to change.

Seaboard Lackawanna Shops, Jacksonville

Head's up y'all, anyone who has ever thought about a railroad hobby, model railroad layout or just a great static collection of cool trains, the approach of the release of this engine is equal to an undefeated Jaguar season topped off with a smashing Super Bowl victory... It ain't cheap, but if you want some sound hobby advice? This is an incredible opportunity.

HOPEFULLY EVERY PERSON WHO DESIRES US TO DEVELOP THAT LONG TALKED ABOUT RAILROAD MUSEUM, WILL SEE THE VALUE OF THIS MODEL. NOT A SINGLE REAL-LIFE CENTIPEDE SURVIVED BEYOND THE 1970's.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Please keep these posts going Ock...it gives me gift ideas for my father....of course usually by the time I see something, he's already pre-ordered it!

[Ernest Street]

Ock..You didn't put this up for me did you?  My Beloved E-7 on major steroids!
I found out that when PRR management saw the "Diesel writing on the wall"..they ordered 24 of those Centipede bad boys!! Did General Motors give Baldwin permission to use the bull nose design?   Hmm..do you think it comes in Pennsylvania Railroad Tuscan Red?

[Dog Walker]

Ock, that Centipede is just about the scariest piece of machinery I've ever seen.  It ranks right up there with those huge bucket rigs they use to mine coal. Awesome!  Seeing one of those coming down the tracks towards you would cause significant sphincter loosening.

Do diesel locomotives still use the opposed piston design engines?  I know a lot of the early ones used the engine designed by Fairbanks-Morse for the WWII fleet submarines. Top secret until after the war.

[Ocklawaha]

Please keep these posts going Ock...it gives me gift ideas for my father....of course usually by the time I see something, he's already pre-ordered it!

TUFSU1, perhaps he'll wait on this, as delivery is still set for November. The delay plus the $450 dollars might slow him down a bit.

Ock..You didn't put this up for me did you?  My Beloved E-7 on major steroids!
I found out that when PRR management saw the "Diesel writing on the wall"..they ordered 24 of those Centipede bad boys!! Did General Motors give Baldwin permission to use the bull nose design?   Hmm..do you think it comes in Pennsylvania Railroad Tuscan Red?

Baldwins baby face never seemed to rattle EMD, once seen it's not really all that similar to the E or F units. Even so when Baldwin came out swinging around 1950, a new cab unit design came with them. The wildly popular Sharknose Diesel.

Ernest, Tufsu1, and friends. The HO Scale (1:87Th) is available in Brunswick Green, the Pennsylvania Railroads freight scheme. Both green body types come with 24 Ct GOLD LEAF lettering. As you probably know, there was a more complex design with a bunch of pin striping, and another style with just a single pen stripe. So far no Tuscan Red (PRR Passenger Colors).

One of the least known facts about this giant locomotive is that it was built as a PASSENGER unit. The 6,000 Horsepower was designed to take out 3 EMD, passenger E-units or 2,000 HP themselves, or replace 2 Erie built GE units, 2 Fairbanks Morse passenger units, or, two of the famous Alco PA-1 engines.

The Pennsylvania Railroad ("Standard Railroad of the World") immediately put these beasts on the famous BROADWAY LIMITED, NYC - CHI. For several years they were common sights in Ft. Wayne, St. Louis, Pittsburgh and even Chicago. Electrical problems plagued many of the Baldwin diesel models and based on that single fault, they got bumped to helper service over the Appalachian Mountains. I can just imagine that when you have wrestled a 7,500 HP, 100 car coal drag at a breakneck speed of 10 MPH, seeing one of these things lashed to the back of your train must have been a HUGE relief! Since all helper units start their respective trains movement, bunching up the slack action, before the EMD or Alcos on the front bite into it. This thing must have been incredible as 5 EMD or Alco units momentarily delay as a single Baldwin diesel shoves the train away!

Not since the blizzard over the South Park Mountain Range, in Colorado's narrow gauge territory, had a single motive power unit been able to shove the train from it's stalled postion on Boreas Pass. The circus train was stalled DEEP in the 11, 460 pass when the elephant trainer decided to unload the pachyderms. With a mighty shove the animal powered train crested the summit... "The show MUST go on!"

So far Pennsylvania Railroad Centipede, isn't available in Tuscan Red...YET! So if you or your father would like to simulate Pennsy passenger trains, just lash up one of your E-Units and build your train. I actually have a brass Centipede, which I ran all the time on my "OCKLAWAHA VALLEY RAILROAD" .
Within a year or two, the Centipede will tackle "Stairway Summit," and head for home rails. Always remember that if locomotives could talk...Yadda, Yadda, Yadda...

The Ocklawaha Valley Railroad, grew up as a byproduct of the logging, lumber, and milling industry. Though the handwriting was on the wall, the real OV . My HO version of this same railroad allows it to be eternally 1960. Since the REAL OV RR was a loyal Baldwin customer, my HO version is too. Until this Centipede announcement, I've always modeled just the Palatka - Ocala, subdivision, (the only part that was ever built). But now I'm thinking of the surveys from Jacksonville Terminal to Tampa, VIA the Palatka-Ocala segment, and my new train room! Yippee!


Fairbanks Morse Train Master, the only real challenge to the Centipede

Dog Walker, The incredible Fairbanks Morse, opposed piston engine, came very close to doubling the horsepower from any FM prime mover.  Most folks know what a standard 6, 8, or 12 cylinder engine looks like, but the FM put a crankshaft on the top and bottom of their engines. So a 6 cylinder became a 12, an 8 became a 16 and a 12 became 24. The savings in unit size to horsepower was awesome. Further, the OP engines on US Submarines were brutes, having a crankshaft above and below the pistons.

The railroads were impressed with the OP engine. Twice the bang for the buck... Fairbanks Morse had nothing but rave reviews from the thousands of men and women who worked with them through the war. Submarines could open hatches and sailor/mechanics could pull crankshafts, or work on the cylinders with ease. Nobody seemed to think what would happen when the locomotives needed a new cylinder or crank shaft. Just to make these routine repairs the FM diesels had to be stripped into a million pieces. An overhead crane was needed to pull the entire works out of the big locomotives, this was no Jiffy Lube fix. The OP engined "Train Master" by Fairbanks Morse, was one of the better locomotives of all time, but you knew at the get go that working on that thing was going to be a MAJOR and HUGE effort. The TM's lasted into the 1970/80 era, as the preferred power on the San Francisco commuter trains. Baldwin's Centipedes died a quiet death when other builders offered attractive trade In's and the knowledge that the company had closed down in 1956. They pointed the to a break in the parts chain of supply, to kill the last Centipede. 

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Baldwin Locomotive Works

Please keep these posts going Ock...it gives me gift ideas for my father....of course usually by the time I see something, he's already pre-ordered it!

Old locomotives are really fun to chase. In the near westside of downtown, Conrad Yelvington Concrete operates two rare Alco's. There is also an Alco that makes it's appearance from  time to time at another concrete plant off Philips Highway. JaxPort has or had a BALDWIN switcher sitting next to one of it's buildings (I don't remember but I think it was on Blount Island). Two more rare engines were just moved away from the Phosphate Terminal north of Talleyrand. They vanished when they started taking it down for the new coal port.

Down in Lakelanders home turf there was a big mine that had an electric railroad operation with overhead trolley wires and old interurban freight motors. I saw it sometime back in the 60's or 70's, and must say I really wanted to hop that fence and take a look. I'm told that it closed and also that is is still there. Makes me wonder if the freight motors are sitting on a dead track somewhere?

If you liked the Centipede take heart, while Baldwin has been out of business for 50+ years, they still have about 200 engines in service around the world. Many factory's still keep one of the old switchers or road diesels around to move the freight around the plant. Baldwin used an "A" Frame, Hamilton, 6 cylinder diesel, many of which were turbo enhanced. They also used an electric throttle, it didn't have the standard 8 notches for acceleration, making it as smooth as silk.
Railroaders loved the Baldwin control stand giving these rare old engines more lives then an alley cat.

Anyone getting up into Pennsylvania, take the camera and look up SMS RAIL SERVICES. This is a company that operates several super sized industrial parks with self contained railroads, as well as several small shortlines. They have a full Baldwin shop and have gathered in a huge stock of the old engines from all over the continent. SMS is the last all Baldwin railroad, and they are true believers, they even host a "Celebrate Baldwin" weekend every year where they fire up at least one of each model of the old gals... BEAUTIFUL.



No it's not an old beat up diesel, it's a model who's owner has weathered it to look authentic.

As far as models go, it is possible to build an all Baldwin railroad, quite a few models are available in HO scale:

AS-16
RS12
VO1000
DRS models
Shark noses
DT (giant transfer engines in brass only)
AS-616 big road switchers
Centipedes


Guess I'm headed down the pike... "Me and my Baldwins..."
Y'all enjoy, I love this stuff... Have you hugged your Baldwin today?

OCKLAWAHA  

[Timkin]

So cool

[spuwho]

Centipedes were fairly obsolete for a couple of reasons.

High axle counts means it couldn't clear certain yards and their switches.
High transfer weight caused it to be restricted to certain routes, especially with ones with sufficient weight of rail and strong bridges.
As the industry is finally finding out after years of attempts (Alco Century, UP Centennials & Oil Turbines, MK5000 and the SD70MAC), that a 6000hp road diesel is not operationally effective or efficient.

Baldwin was late to the diesel market and their innovation through some gimmicks instead of reliability (The Sharknose was very unreliable) cost them their existence.

Fairbanks Morse was an interloper that tried to take advantage of the huge diesel transition after WWII by converting their marine engine to use as a prime mover. They primarily sold to RR's who couldn't get product fast enough from Alco or EMD. When demand was finally fulfilled and the RR's started their shrinkage, F-M was doomed.

Both were unique in how they tried to differentiate themselves, unfortunately it didn't translate into solid long term sales.

[Ocklawaha]

WEST JAX? Maybe so, but it's posing for a PR photo, Seaboard called them "RAIL MASTERS."

Well that's the common opinion in much of the railroad world, but I beg to differ slightly... The 4 axle GM EMD GP-9 typically weighed in at 240,000 pounds with 4 axles = 60,000 pounds per axle. The FM H-10-44 246,000 pounds  with 4 axles = 61,500 pounds per axle. The Baldwin Centipede Demonstrator with 8 V-8 engines specs called for a 1,200,000 pound engine on 12 axles for 100,000 pounds per axle... BUT! only 4 engines and generator units were actually ever installed in a modular design (one engine and one generator on something like a pallet so it could be removed for servicing with great ease). Some records state the PRR engines weighed close to the original demonstrator, but I find that unless PRR weighted them with ballast for helper service, there is really nothing I have ever read that PROVES they were above the weight of the actual units delivered to 3 of the 4 railroads that placed orders (Union Pacific canceled their order after their locomotive was completed in what remains something of a mystery today, since "Uncle Pete" was dedicated to trying for extremely high horsepower units). So the typical Centipede actually delivered weighed in at 595,000 pounds with 12 axles for an axle load of 49,583 per axle or 11,917 pounds per axle LIGHTER then an off the shelf (and then common) GP-9, H-10-44 and similar units and 8,000 pounds +/- lighter per axle then an Alco RS-2.

The glory days of the Centipede's, here are two of the big bruisers on the point of a Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Train, possibly the world famous BROADWAY LIMITED, an assignment they often held down.

So the Centipede would have been a good match for the drag service that they ultimately ended up doing. The Seaboard, unlike the Pennsy, seemed to understand this and actually ordered their units for the roller coaster Piedmont mainline north of Hamlet.

This is where Oil Coolers, and Turbo-Charger problems interfered, and the lack of multiple unit ability. Different railroads attacked these uniquely. Seaboard installed MU cables on the backs of all the Centipedes and they COULD operate with all of the other makes of power, but because no cables were in the front, they could only do so on the point (front) of a multi-loco lash-up.  Some claim it was because they only needed ONE Centipede to do the job, or serve as a helper, but I suspect it was some of that, but also the Baldwin ELECTRIC throttle, that without notches allowed a smooth streetcar like acceleration. Pennsy ripped out the turbochargers and de-rated the engines by 500 hp...but solved a problem. Everyone took the oil coolers down and rebuilt them.

NACIONALES DE MEXICO, BALDWIN DR6-6-3000... And for you "3rd World Critics" NOTHING that lives in the Mojave or Sonoran Deserts will keep that just build shiny coat of paint, not NdeM, not Southern Pacific, and not UNION PACIFIC or KANSAS CITY SOUTHERN today. NOTHING! You ought to see how long the paint lasts on my cabin in Landers! HA! That's one thing they ALWAYS got right in Clint Eastwood's Spaghetti Westerns.

Don't forget that all of the Centipede fleets outlived their trust accounts, being retired on the Seaboard right on the advertised. Pennsy kept the candles burning longer and rebuilt the engines, retiring them in 1961ish only to bring them back from dead-storage when a traffic surge a couple of years later demanded huge power... Past the dates on those trust accounts. Then over Mexico way on the N de M, they too rebuilt them for dragging long freights from the US Border Connections southward through mountainous desert country. San Luis Potosí., rebuilt their large fleet and keep them rolling right into the 1970's, 30+ years. Not bad for a locomotive generally thought of as an "also ran" or "poor performer."  I firmly believe had Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Milwaukee Road and Southern bought into the big brutes all of the "FOAMERS" would be singing their praises yet.

JACKSONVILLE AMTRAK STATION SWITCHER, 1977? A 1939 model Baldwin VO-1000!

Don't be too quick to write off Baldwin, FM, Lima, Hamilton, Lima-Hamilton, Alco or BLH, they didn't die natural deaths. All of the builders had a full line of diesels on the drawing boards and were ready to start production when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The War Production Board stepped in primarily on the side of GM (EMD) and allowed them to build their line of Diesels, but held the others to "proven models" aka: STEAM, with very few exceptions. If Baldwin was a bad Diesel, the terminal railroads of 1941-56 certainly didn't think so as they literally flooded the market with their extensive line of officially sanctioned Diesel Switchers. Alco likewise got a short shrift and was held back. Lima known for it's "SUPERPOWER" steam locomotives was kept out of the market completely... When the war ended the idea of thousands of experienced submarine mechanics who had working knowledge of the FM opposed piston engines made it a logical builder for Diesel Locomotives. There again, even FM all got in the game late and not unlike the streetcar holocaust, don't doubt that some GM executives weren't sitting by the camp fire when their lights went out!

Had the Centipede been released in 1941, todays Diesel world would perhaps have a different look. Note the newest GEN-SET locomotives for example... They feature a Modular Prime Mover-Generator set on an easily removable platform, the newest super-power diesel engines? "A-Frames"!  Gee, where have we seen that before?

OCKLAWAHA

[spuwho]

Ock,

Agreed on weight per axle, but I was talking about transfer weight, the gross weight applied to a bridge at speed when the train passes over it.

Even the current Motive Power MP36-CH, bought in quantity for commuter rail service today is pretty portly. In fact many bridges on the UP (former CNW Geneva Sub) West line out of Chicago can't support it. That's the same line UP uses with Dash-8's for coal drags out of Powder River.

It defies logic that one MP36 has a higher gross transfer weight than 2 Dash-8's lashed up.

So while Centipede lowered the weight per axle (by adding so many) it still was very heavy.

[Ocklawaha]

Yes, if that's where your coming from then it would be a monster... Like the Mallet's (Mallet's original design was a compound locomotive, in which the steam is used twice) or the American designed Big Boy, Cab Forwards etc that used a simple expansion, 4 high pressure cylinder system, (for speed)  rather then Mallet's slower compound expansion design. As you might know the BIG BOYS also weighed in at over 1,000,000 pounds.

An interesting aside is the fact that the Centipedes didn't seem to chock up that much trouble outside of radii that was too sharp, complex switch work or as you noted bridge restrictions. The only other odd fact I have found is that due to their 90+ foot length, not many shops or turntables could handle them, and most wye's ("Y" non railroaders think 3-point turn) were too sharp or shoddy to handle them. But in their original intent, heavy high speed mainline service,  they excelled for their time.

The worst piece of the Centipede story is that even though they survived in service into the museum era. In the 1970's when the NdeM retired their fleet, not a single example was preserved on either side of the border. Had they lasted just a couple years more, the Mexican railroad museum would have snapped them up as they did the Alco PA units.

You might be amused that we had a mallet of the "Sumpter Valley" mold down in Colombia, before my time. Seems that it blew up when someone got irritated by the safety valves and tied them down!

OCKLAWAHA