Bus Shelter Advertising Debate headed to City Council

[CS Foltz]

Everyone seems to have forgotten about the $73 Million Dollars that JTA just happen to find in someones desk or unused bank account............my point is why are we waiting till we get an "Advertiser" to fund bus stop shelters? JTA has the money on hand and if they don't have shelters in stock stored somewhere, then someone is not doing their job! The advertising verbage pertains to commercial advertising in conjunction with more shelters...........I mean we can spend $600k+ on a new bus that will most always not be full to its 60 + person capacity and you mean to tell me that JTA has no prefabbed shelters available? How many new bus's were bought?......this is a case for prioritizing and JTA is not doing their job......one bus could have paid for several shelters....if they were on a average of $2200 per shelter and labor cost to assemble was $300.....that's more than one shelter for sure is it not?

[stjr]

So JTA CAN work with the City Council for approval to get bus shelters with advertising on them, but can't work with them to tap the mystery money so we could enjoy the 5 BILLION dollar boom Phoenix is having around it's light rail.

JTA didn't "work" with the City Council for approval of bus shelters, they out and out MISLED them with misinformation.  Don't worry, give them some time, and they will have some cooked books out of the oven soon for the next item on their want list.  We'll see how that "works" with the City Council.

[CS Foltz]

stjr I agree! JTA has not been forthcoming with their numbers by any stretch of the imagination! I am looking forward to the first "Law Suit" so when it hits the fans.......I want to be standing behind a Council member for cover! The so-called Mayor has given this his stamp of approval which means .....won't be long before it hits the proverbial fan!

[tufsu1]

if they were on a average of $2200 per shelter and labor cost to assemble was $300.....that's more than one shelter for sure is it not?

one big problem...each shelter is more like $6,000 and often costs about the same to install (given that concrete pads have to be poured)...and remember, these are real basic shelters...;larger, nicer ones can cost $25,000 or more.

[stjr]

one big problem...each shelter is more like $6,000 and often costs about the same to install (given that concrete pads have to be poured)...and remember, these are real basic shelters...;larger, nicer ones can cost $25,000 or more.

Tufsu, just checking.  You aren't getting your numbers from JTA are you?   

[thelakelander]

According to Mike Miller, the Springfield shelters cost $40,000 a piece.

Everyone seems to have forgotten about the $73 Million Dollars that JTA just happen to find in someones desk or unused bank account............my point is why are we waiting till we get an "Advertiser" to fund bus stop shelters? JTA has the money on hand and if they don't have shelters in stock stored somewhere, then someone is not doing their job!

Imo, if JTA has $73 million in cash laying around, that money should go towards transit improvements that the private sector is not immediately willing to finance.  In other words, I'd go with advertising on shelters and shift the entire $73 million to getting something like a streetcar system out of the ground.

Did anyone catch this in today's Daily Record?  The signage looks great, however, it seems like they're getting ahead of themselves if the shelters are on the way too.  

You have a point.  The signs are nice but this something that could be worked into the design of the new shelters and paid with by private money.

[stjr]

According to Mike Miller, the Springfield shelters cost $40,000 a piece.

If that's true, I doubt even the advertising will pay for such a shelter.  Expect to hear that any ad company will limit the value of a shelter they will pay for.  It will be interesting to see what that number is and what type of shelter you can buy for it.  Jax isn't exactly New York when it comes to bus shelter sign views  So how much is each sign worth to an advertiser?  I expect a decent probability of JTA disappointing and/or looking foolish when all the details come out on this.  I noticed they didn't publicize in the press any examples of shelters to be funded or the amount of proceeds per shelter they expect to get.

Did anyone catch this in today's Daily Record?  The signage looks great, however, it seems like they're getting ahead of themselves if the shelters are on the way too.  

You have a point.  The signs are nice but this something that could be worked into the design of the new shelters and paid with by private money.

Another example of JTA incompetence.  Yes, the signs look great but knowing the shelters are to be upgraded and expanded, you would think, after all these years, they could have waited just a little longer for the signs to be attached to all those new shelters.  I bet these signs cost at least $1,000 to $2,000 each, installed.  How about it Tufsu?  I thought money was tight at JTA.

[CS Foltz]

40K for a Historical District shelter seems abit much and 6K for a standardized shelter also seems a bit much, concrete not withstanding! I doubt if there is any heavy rebar in the slab and most of the structure should be aluminum which would mean self drilling,self tapping hardware. Some caulk to seal roof sections and poof! Shelter should not cost $6k per shelter even in todays materials cost market! Standardizing would lower cost even more, but that's just my take!

[thelakelander]

The easiest way to find out the cost of a shelter and maintainence is to call one of the companies in the business.  Try contacting JCDecaux North America: http://www.jcdecauxna.com/pages/Default.aspx

[tufsu1]

Another few sites for research

http://www.sheltersdirect.com/transitShelters.php

http://www.handi-hut.com/?gclid=CKqNrvDY350CFQRM5QodPlGrPA

[CS Foltz]

Hay guys....thanks for the links.....gonna start cking now! Numbers just don't make sense to me based on what I've seen! Something on 4 posts with a roof, made of aluminum is about as cheap as you could do it! Wood might be cheaper but not sure......will look into it and go from there!

[blizz01]

JTA says it will put the brakes on bus shelters with ads

Bus shelters with advertisements may not be coming to Jacksonville after all.

Earlier this month, the City Council amended its sign law to allow the Jacksonville Transportation Authority to build bus shelters with advertisements. JTA wanted to hire a private sign company to build and maintain shelters in the city.

The amendment was strongly opposed by people who pushed for a stronger sign law in the 1980s. At Thursday’s board meeting, chairwoman Ava Parker announced that JTA would delay moving forward with hiring a sign company until at least January. JTA will meet with opponents of the amending the sign law and ask them to suggest ways that bus shelters can be built and maintained without the assistance of a private sign company.

Parker said JTA was still committed to constructing more bus shelters.

But the negative reaction made the board decide to step back and work with people who thought it was a bad idea, Parker said.

“We’ve studied this issue and believe we came up with the best solution,” she said. “But it’s possible there are better ideas out there and we want to hear what they are.”

http://jacksonville.com/news/2009-10-29/story/jta_says_it_will_put_the_brakes_on_bus_shelters_with_ads

[thelakelander]

  Only in Jacksonville.  Who wants to place bets that nothing happens at all and the system remains dysfunctional?

[stjr]

JTA says it will put the brakes on bus shelters with ads

...I doubt even the advertising will pay for such a shelter.  Expect to hear that any ad company will limit the value of a shelter they will pay for.  It will be interesting to see what that number is and what type of shelter you can buy for it.  Jax isn't exactly New York when it comes to bus shelter sign views  So how much is each sign worth to an advertiser?  I expect a decent probability of JTA disappointing and/or looking foolish when all the details come out on this.  I noticed they didn't publicize in the press any examples of shelters to be funded or the amount of proceeds per shelter they expect to get.

Did I tell ya' so?  I will give JTA kudo's for being big enough to back down and admit a problem.  Best thing they have done in a while.

When you consider the opposition, the mistated bus shelter data, the advice of the real legal experts on billboards, the economic feasibility of ads funding what was promised and/or needed, etc., I think this is the only action JTA should take presently.

I will remind you that JTA may be able to fund the shelters in other ways, not the least of which is taking the funds used to operate the useless $ky-high-way and apply them toward assisting thousands more bus riders and maybe even adding a few with the added amenities.  Now, that would be a major win-win for everyone!

Failing that, I have already pointed out ways other communities have found to fund shelters.  Stimulus dollars, corporate underwriting, downtown development agencies, community groups, redirected funds from lesser priorities, etc.  Being creative, I am sure we can do the same.

[JeffreyS]

You think any council members who put themselves out there for the JTA might now hesitate to do so again?