Largest Sears store in the World?

[stjr]

What building actually was Charter's headquarters, by the way? That was before my time here, but I'm curious...

In the 70's they were in what is now the Suddath Building (formerly the IBM Building).  Eventually, they relocated in the late 70's to the Greenleaf Building downtown.  In about 1980, they grew so much they moved into the Universal Marion Building, now JEA's headquarters.  See the Universal Marion thread with Charter info at: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-nov-the-universal-marion-building .  Like their predecessor in that building, Universal Marion, Charter filed Chapter 11 in 1984.  After liquidating their assets and settling their debts, they had enough surplus cash left to go back into business by acquiring Spelling Entertainment (yes, Aaron Spelling and 90210, etc.).  This became part of Blockbuster which was then acquired by Viacom.  Over the years, Charter has been mentioned at times in Viacom's annual report under "Contingent Liabililites" for the waste oil spraying activities of a long ago acquired Charter subsidiary in Times Beach, Missouri. 

[ChriswUfGator]

Thanks stjr. You are a wealth of knowledge, and I appreciate your sharing it.

[tufsu1]

The Armpit of Florida.  That's was how we described Jacksonville, while growing up in Central Florida.

That's what the folks in Orlando now say about Tampa

[stjr]

Thanks stjr. You are a wealth of knowledge, and I appreciate your sharing it.

I think I am just getting along in years that I have this much history to report!  But, thanks anyway for the appreciation.  I, too, have learned much about Jax's past from fellow posters.  It does seem we have a rich history in so many fields of endeavor.  It is a shame Jax has forgotten and/or lost so much of it.

One day, maybe someone could take the discussion on MJ and use it as a springboard for a definitive and comprehensive history of our fair city.  I know many would purchase such a book.

[Wacca Pilatka]

A question about all the info on Charter...

In Old Hickory's Town, the original version of which was written in 1982, the then-under construction Southern Bell building was referred to throughout the book as the "Charter-Southern Bell Building."  I had also recently read a blurb in a Jax downtown guide that stated the Southern Bell building has 16 sides because it was designed to accomodate all the corner offices that Charter and Southern Bell executives would demand.

Stjr, you mentioned upthread that Charter planned to build a supertall on the Sears site.  Did this eventually evolve into the Southern Bell building on the adjacent site, or was this a completely separate plan?

[stjr]

A question about all the info on Charter...

In Old Hickory's Town, the original version of which was written in 1982, the then-under construction Southern Bell building was referred to throughout the book as the "Charter-Southern Bell Building."  I had also recently read a blurb in a Jax downtown guide that stated the Southern Bell building has 16 sides because it was designed to accomodate all the corner offices that Charter and Southern Bell executives would demand.

Stjr, you mentioned upthread that Charter planned to build a supertall on the Sears site.  Did this eventually evolve into the Southern Bell building on the adjacent site, or was this a completely separate plan?

Interestingly, Charter DID BUILD the the Southern Bell/Bell South/ATT building!  The block originally included the Mayflower Hotel and some other surrounding small office buildings.  Charter's Land and Housing Division accumulated the land for redevelopment.  They imploded the Mayflower as I recall.

The phone company, for regulatory reasons, didn't want to own the building.  Apparently, they and Charter agreed on this building but I don't recall that Charter had any intention of using it for themselves although Charter, being the ultimate wheeler-dealer company, could have considered it at some point. During construction, Charter's fortunes dropped precipitously, and, as I recall, interest rates rose precipitously.  The squeeze prevented Charter from completing the building and my understanding is that BellSouth finally had to take it over to insure its completion.

Mayflower Hotel:

[ChriswUfGator]

Thanks stjr. You are a wealth of knowledge, and I appreciate your sharing it.

I think I am just getting along in years that I have this much history to report!  But, thanks anyway for the appreciation.  I, too, have learned much about Jax's past from fellow posters.  It does seem we have a rich history in so many fields of endeavor.  It is a shame Jax has forgotten and/or lost so much of it.

One day, maybe someone could take the discussion on MJ and use it as a springboard for a definitive and comprehensive history of our fair city.  I know many would purchase such a book.

I could hook you up with a friend and old professor of mine, who wrote the official history of the Barnett Bank. He's another business history buff, and I'm sure you guys would have a lot to talk about. He has done some important work to conserve parts of our local business history.

[stjr]

Thanks stjr. You are a wealth of knowledge, and I appreciate your sharing it.

I think I am just getting along in years that I have this much history to report!  But, thanks anyway for the appreciation.  I, too, have learned much about Jax's past from fellow posters.  It does seem we have a rich history in so many fields of endeavor.  It is a shame Jax has forgotten and/or lost so much of it.

One day, maybe someone could take the discussion on MJ and use it as a springboard for a definitive and comprehensive history of our fair city.  I know many would purchase such a book.

I could hook you up with a friend and old professor of mine, who wrote the official history of the Barnett Bank. He's another business history buff, and I'm sure you guys would have a lot to talk about. He has done some important work to conserve parts of our local business history.

Chris, thanks.  That's interesting.  I think the real treasure trove would be the archives of the Florida Times Union.  Almost every historical item we talk about here has appeared over the decades in articles amongst their pages.  If they would digitize their content so it could be searchable they probably would have a nice little business on the side for those wishing to research our past.  The New York Times has done this back to the 1800's and you can search on their web site for free most years.  If the T-U doesn't care to do it, maybe they could partner with Google who is already digitizing the books of the world!

By example, I did this New York Times search for the MJ Mandarin thread ( http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,3886.0.html#quickreply ) a while back. Here is an excerpt:

For a little fun, I searched the New York Times archives for early mentions of Mandarin.  I found the first mention of Mandarin in the New York Times in this 1873 article:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9802E3D6163BEF34BC4F52DFB5668388669FDE

Here is an 1878 reference to mandarin oranges, "esteemed by those who have eaten them":
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9903EFD6153EE73BBC4151DFB4678383669FDE
  Although their source is not given, Manadarin is supposedly the first place in North America such oranges where grown, hence its name.

While Mandarin is not specifically mentioned (Green Cove Springs made it), this is a detailed description of the landscape and environs along President Chester Arthur's 1883 vacation by train to Jacksonville (where he made his only speech of the trip after travelling by road from Callahan!) followed by boat down the St. Johns River to Sanford:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=980CE2D91530E433A25750C1A9629C94629FD7CF

Here is a Jacksonville dispatch describing the great freeze in this area and about Florida destroying much of the citrus including Mandarin.  No doubt, one of several freezes that ultimately ended the commercial growth of citrus in Mandarin for good:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9403E1DF1330E533A25754C0A9659C94679FD7CF

And upon the 1896 death of Harriet Beecher Stowe, this extensive rememberance and biography, complete with mention of her Mandarin, Florida estate:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C00EFDE1638E033A25751C0A9619C94679ED7CF

After Stowe's death, locals raised money for a stain glass memorial window (which was made by Tiffany studios - yes that Tiffany) for the Episcopal Church of Our Savior, also on the river on Mandarin Rd.  Unfortunately, the window was damaged beyond repair when the eye of Hurricane Dora crossed in the Mandarin area in 1964.  The historic church was rebuilt after the hurricane in the same manner as the original.  I suspect this 1914 story resulted in the only Mandarin, Florida dateline ever in the NY Times:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9E06E7D91E39E633A25757C0A9629C946596D6CF

[Overstreet]

..........Overstreet, I don't recall a basement in this store.  Are you sure about that?  Also, the buildings (and the $ky-high-way station) already constructed on the site appear to overlap some portion of the footprint of the original store.  Wouldn't any issues caused by something like this have to have been already dealt with?..........

The Sears demo happened before I arrived. I know this from stories told by our carpenters and laborers on the Landing when it was built.

There is always stuff in the ground when you build down town. Most of it is discovered during the borings and geotech report. The Enterprise center and Omni Hotel are more off the old building site. The skyway is in the right of way. Maybe they found something maybe not. Either way the borings will tell when they go to build something unless they get cheap and cut back on testing.

This happens. When we went to build the Health Dept Lab on Pearl Street next to the creek they did borings and then decided to move the building. They didn't do new borings. When we were driving the precast pilings they would hit refusal early and some would bounce back up. Digging found several downed and buried pine trees. We moved over that started driving. Bong!.......... digging found an old fuel tank with fuel.   During remediation a navigational buoy from the river was found. 

[Seraphs]

What building actually was Charter's headquarters, by the way? That was before my time here, but I'm curious...

In the 70's they were in what is now the Suddath Building (formerly the IBM Building).  Eventually, they relocated in the late 70's to the Greenleaf Building downtown.  In about 1980, they grew so much they moved into the Universal Marion Building, now JEA's headquarters.  See the Universal Marion thread with Charter info at: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-nov-the-universal-marion-building .  Like their predecessor in that building, Universal Marion, Charter filed Chapter 11 in 1984.  After liquidating their assets and settling their debts, they had enough surplus cash left to go back into business by acquiring Spelling Entertainment (yes, Aaron Spelling and 90210, etc.).  This became part of Blockbuster which was then acquired by Viacom.  Over the years, Charter has been mentioned at times in Viacom's annual report under "Contingent Liabililites" for the waste oil spraying activities of a long ago acquired Charter subsidiary in Times Beach, Missouri. 

Wasn't the initial downfall of Charter caused by four or five of their top brass killed in a plane crash?

[stjr]

What building actually was Charter's headquarters, by the way? That was before my time here, but I'm curious...

In the 70's they were in what is now the Suddath Building (formerly the IBM Building).  Eventually, they relocated in the late 70's to the Greenleaf Building downtown.  In about 1980, they grew so much they moved into the Universal Marion Building, now JEA's headquarters.  See the Universal Marion thread with Charter info at: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-nov-the-universal-marion-building .  Like their predecessor in that building, Universal Marion, Charter filed Chapter 11 in 1984.  After liquidating their assets and settling their debts, they had enough surplus cash left to go back into business by acquiring Spelling Entertainment (yes, Aaron Spelling and 90210, etc.).  This became part of Blockbuster which was then acquired by Viacom.  Over the years, Charter has been mentioned at times in Viacom's annual report under "Contingent Liabili lites" for the waste oil spraying activities of a long ago acquired Charter subsidiary in Times Beach, Missouri. 

Wasn't the initial downfall of Charter caused by four or five of their top brass killed in a plane crash?

Actually, it was 4 of the top 5 executives (Raymond Mason the founder was not aboard) that were killed in a helicopter crash in, I think, 1982, being ferried from Mason's summer home at his castle in Ireland to Shannon airport to meet a company jet to go to a business meeting in Europe.  After the accident, every company in America just about updated their travel policies regarding how many employees could be on the same plane.

In my opinion, the downfall was that Mason never really replaced the execs who were mostly charged with running the day to day details of the companies.  Mason was more of a wheeler-dealer big picture type of guy.  Also, by not replacing the execs the company lacked a real rudder to steer by.  Lastly, 80% of Charter was the oil business which is highly cyclical and Charter failed to save resources from its boom years to cover the down years (sound familiar?).

[Timkin]

The Sears Downtown Store had a basement. I very well remember the store.  At Christmastime it was just incredible to see and to walk around..