Jacksonville to Miami Passenger Rail Returning?

[thelakelander]

Unless I'm overlooking someone, other than Brown, no one else from Jacksonville as well.

[FayeforCure]

Unless I'm overlooking someone, other than Brown, no one else from Jacksonville as well.

No one else from Jacksonville has ever claimed they are HSR supporters, ............in fact John Mica routinely gets praised for being a high speed rail supporter. Sigh,........I guess he just wants to take the Acela from Amtrak.

[thelakelander]

The bill also mentioned the Amtrak/FEC corridor.  Is it okay that no support from Jax (outside Brown)was given?  Even Plant City endorsed the thing and HSR will blow right through their community.

[Ocklawaha]

Hopefully this current High Speed Rail Plan goes down in flames, and something sensible rises in its place. So I really don't see where a lot of Jax support for HSR Florida would help us. I think the FEC train is going to roll with or without the HSR disaster. A some distant date we may be looking at supporting HSR to Atlanta, and DC, even New Orleans, but for now, we are not on the map.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

I mentioned the Amtrak/FEC project because it appears that their fates have been tied together.  Personally, for political reasons I think we'll get the money necessary to build both projects.  However, once Obama leaves office, future rail projects will become more cloudy (political climates run in cycles).  In other words, if JTA wants commuter rail and streetcars, its time to "doing something" or get off the pot.

[CS Foltz]

Gentlemen........I agree! I think we have a better shot at getting service moving from Jacksonville to Miami, both ways, than we do with that fiasco trying to come to life in Orlando! Mouseville wants a train then let them build it but for my dollar, if I had a say in it, service to Miami has a better profit potential and that would grow even more if the connection was New York to Miami. That would take minimal funding and most of the equipment is already on line and just a scheduling task and pooooof...........train is hard at work! Yes I know simplistic but start small, or simple, and grow from there!

[buckethead]

Jacksonville to Miami Passenger Rail Returning?



After receiving significant support from local governments along the East Coast, FDOT recently submitted a request to use federal dollars to bring high-speed passenger rail to the FEC corridor.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-jacksonville-to-miami-passenger-rail-returning

Looking at that image, a novice might actually believe that Jacksonville is built around rail, and perfectly situated to handle multi-faceted rail transport.

[JeffreyS]

So have the fates of the Central Florida $30 a pop one way HSR from Tampa to Orlando International and the Amtrak State long serving many communities been tied together by this application?

[FayeforCure]

So have the fates of the Central Florida $30 a pop one way HSR from Tampa to Orlando International and the Amtrak State long serving many communities been tied together by this application?

It certainly would seem that way.

As to Lakelander's question about local congressmen support, unfortunately that would be difficult to get based in large measure on their respective political affiliations. It is sad to see that of the 15 Republican Congressmen for Florida, onlt three have signed up in support of this combined HSR, and Jax-Miami Amtrak proclamation.

In the case of John Mica it's a blatant two-faced position as he regularly gets praised as a HSR supporter in the press,.........but when push comes to shove, he is MIA for Florida.

[FayeforCure]

Stephen, I understand where you're coming from,.............but why aren't we holding our elected officials accountable?

Can anyone explain why this is:

In the case of John Mica it's a blatant two-faced position as he regularly gets praised as a HSR supporter in the press,.........but when push comes to shove, he is MIA for Florida

Does someone deserve a certain reputation, and then not live up to it?

Wouldn't it be much better if we can count on those who "represent" us, to actually help in the public transportation efforts, expecially if they proclaim to be a train and HSR supporter?

BTW, Stephen, you mean to say you don't know what I am for after posting around 700 comments on metrojacksonville boards? Wow, I wonder how many words are needed to have clear position!

[buckethead]

It's clear would like to unseat Mica. What is less clear is what you would do.

We do know that you support the HSR proposal.

[Ocklawaha]

Yeah, I know John Mica, Faye, and more then agree with Stephen that this is not only old, it's worn out. We get E:Mails telling us so and so is no longer reading these posts because of the constant single minded theme.

I am one of the biggest supporters of High Speed Rail in the country, but not STUPID HIGH SPEED RAIL, just so our state can line it's pockets with Federal dollars which the government took from the people in the first place. I agree we should hold our public servants accountable, the same goes for candidate's for public office. Seems like whatever argument we put forth to explain why the current plan is a train wreck waiting to happen, you go negative and put up a wall. Commuter Rail? the same thing. If Mica, supports High Speed Rail as most on these pages do, then he would be VERY right in backing away from this Central Florida disaster. Just posting endless lists of links doesn't tell us your position either. It's not that we don't want to hear from you, I think it's more that you don't really want to hear from us. Of the 4 owners adding myself as an editor, the 5 of us work in: Major Railroad, Railroad Consulting, Urban Planning, IT systems, and Business Management. I think we are as qualified as anyone you cite to express grave doubts about this plan.

Constructive discourse? Have you gone through our questions and done the homework to give us point by point responses that don't include either what the HSR groups are saying, or more Mica?

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

...and this just in from The Transport Politic Blog:

A high-speed rail system in the Sunshine State would be quite appropriate, as the peninsula’s cities are large, they’re well within commuting distance, and they suffer from significant road congestion. A train network would provide a very useful alternative to the sprawled-out car-only culture that pervades much of the state’s current development. The system could also be an exciting proving ground for the use of Bombardier’s JetTrain, which allows 150 mph top speeds without the use of electric catenary â€" though it sacrifices significantly in terms of environmental effects.

But the planned corridor for the first phase of the project â€" which the state has already spent more than $1 billion acquiring and planning â€" is problematic enough to raise concerns about whether investment in this system is an appropriate use of Washington’s money. The western terminus of the route is acceptable â€" a station would be constructed in downtown Tampa. The route would then, less suitably, follow I-4 across the state, until it reaches the southern suburbs of Orland0, where the corridor will diverge from I-4 onto the Beachline Expressway to reach the Orlando Airport. Along the way, the line will serve the northern suburbs of Lakeland, the Disney World Complex, and the Orlando/Orange County Convention Center, near Sea World.

Not getting stations: downtown Orlando and Lakeland. That’s a huge loss, because it eliminates the possibility of using high-speed rail as an effective development mechanism that can spur dense, mixed-use building. Stations near Disney World and the Convention Center are located in areas that are already mostly built up, but in a sprawled-out fashion. On the other hand, both Orlando and Lakeland have rejuvenating downtowns that are walkable and would grow up if high-speed rail stopped in them. Orlando is investing in a major new arena and a performing arts center, and a commuter rail system linking downtown with the northern and southern suburbs is in development. In other words, these are places worth further investment...

As we've been saying, now the cat is out of the pullman and chances are everyone is in the know on Mickeys HSR. Bad idea, Bad idea, Bad idea!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

I agree Ock! If Mouseville wants a railroad then let them build it! Disney just spent something like 2.5 Billion to acquire the Marvel Empire so they are not broke by any means. Tax dollars to supply Mouseville with a people mover system is just flat wrong and the rest of the state will suffer for sure!

[FayeforCure]

I personally am trying to ascertain if you care about these issues, or if you are simply backing what has lots of popularity down there.

Well, I happen to care about these issues. Given my own background it's easy to acertain authenticity. Heck I have a sister living in Europe ( in her forties) who has NEVER yet owned a car.

My personal experience says enough. I'm not beholden to special interests, and have been a citizen advocate on healthcare long enough to have made my marks for the people's interests.

Now if you are looking for someone who is a corporatist, which you can find in both parties, you are not going to find that in me. That doesn't mean I am against corporations,.........my dad worked for Philips Electronics all of his life, and they paid for my master's degree through their scholarship program. I too have worked for major corporations myself: Nestle, Kaiser Parmanente and Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

I have had the fortune to live in the far east and the middle east, as well as being born in Colombia, because my dad was stationed overseas while he worked for a multi-national company.

Though government can help facilitate things for corporations ( infrastructure is a prime example), it should also be there to protect the people from corporate excesses. It's the corporate excesses to caused our recent economic collapse.

Mostly I think government should put policies in place that help small businesses, as they supply 70% of our employment.

On HSR, I think downtown to downtown connections are preferable, that is how it's done in Europe, although there are train stations at every airport as well. Florida is different from other places in the US, because of its high tourist component.

Heck, we all know that our economy has been based on agriculture, tourism and construction. Not much diversification to speak of compared to others areas in the US.

We can either ignore the tourist component or we can capitalize on it. As an economist, I prefer to capitalize on it. And the notion of stopping at every little town along the Tampa-Orlando route as lakelander has suggested is ludicrous, as it completely negates the HSR notion.

The HSR I took in Europe as I visited my parents this past Jan. didn't stop at every little town along the way either. If I wanted that I could have taken the "stop" train.

The distance was the same as Tampa-Orlando,.........Amsterdam-Eindhoven, and they only had one stop at Utrecht.

Of coures you all have debated all these issues ad nauseum on these boards, and there is definitely a lot of expertise here, but I too can have serious opinions that may differ from some of the group think that can occur when people hang out a lot with each other. I always back up my stuff with sourcing as you know. I enjoy researching and learning.

The one congressman did not show up on the list backing HSR in Florida, that is a pure fact, indisputable.

So in this case I don't think there is a difficulty going through the evaluation as laid out by you:

With so much criticism of mica its more difficult, because I have to stop and decide whether your point is
a. Accurate
b. sourced,
c. a reflection of how you feel
d. just an attempt to raise the negatives on mica.

I am only testing the waters in terms of running again. Knowing that incumbents win 95% of the time, makes elections a real farce. The only way to level the playing field is for publicly financed campaigns.

It's no wonder nothing ever gets done, incumbents have no reason to to listen to the needs of the people. We will forever be stuck with career politicians unless we stop making excuses for them, and vote them out.