Jacksonville to Miami Passenger Rail Returning?

[mtraininjax]

Nothing, and I repeat nothing will happen to move Amtrak back downtown, until the new Convention Center site is chosen and work starts on it. Till then, the City needs somewhere to dump the conventions that come to town in a recession....is the thinking at 117 West Duval Street. Plus, in order to really look at sites, you have to build the new courthouse, which could lead to the demolition of the old courthouse, and pave the way for the new convention center, which to me makes best sense, on the river, next to the Hyatt, which is probably why we have not seen more push to build the new CC.


It is a huge domino effect.

[Jaxson]

I believe that there is an error in thinking that the convention center has to move for Amtrak to come back to the Union Terminal facility.  Look at New York's Penn Station.  It is under Madison Square Garden.  One time, when I was taking a connecting train to Cleveland, there was a high school graduation going on in MSG while passengers were milling around on another level.  There was some mingling of the two outside but it all went smoothly, I got to board my train, others got their diplomas...

[Jaxson]

Thanks, Lakelander.

A high school classmate heard me on the radio and told me (via facebook) that she agreed.  I didn't field any calls about Amtrak but am glad that I was able to help raise awareness of the issue again.  I talked about it with Andy Johnson on the radio last month.

That is a good idea about getting copies to City Hall.  I plan to do that this week.

[mtraininjax]

The only error was placing a convention center without a HOTEL next to it. Penn Station has hotels around it, as does MSG. Have you ever tried to hail down a CAB from the Prime? They are parked all around the MSG, so think you could fall over them.

Graduations in Jacksonville occur at the Arena, not the CC.

[Jaxson]

You don't have to patronize me.  I know that graduations are at our arena.  You were implying that we cannot have a train station and another venue at the same location.

My point is that you can have a train station and a city-operated venue (like a convention center) in the same vicinity.

My major point is that we don't have to wait for a new convention center to have Amtrak at the Prime Osborn. 

Another example of multiple uses for a spot is Union Station in Washington DC.

[Jaxson]

And to make myself clear --- I don't think that the federal government is going to wait for us to get our act together and move the convention center before we are 'ready' for some meaningful movement on getting a train station moved to the Union Terminal building.
I really don't buy the agument that we cannot 'walk and chew gum at the same time' and can only afford to have a train station at the site of the Prime Osborn.  I have detrained in Washington DC for the 1997 inauguration and encountered areas that were closed off for inauguration parties.  I am not trying to say that we have inauguration parties in Jacksonville but that we can have multiple purposes for facilities. 
In actuality, the Union Terminal building could be used exclusively for the passenger station.  The remainder of the Prime Osborn could be used for conventions.
Sorry for sounding so defensive, but I bristle at suggestions that we not move forward on something we have been sitting on for so many years.

[thelakelander]

Without a doubt, the convention center needs to get out of the old terminal, ASAP.  However, it is feasible to have Amtrak there before the convention center leaves.  The current plan for the JTC shows how they would co-exist.



Most of this is new construction, outside of the existing structure.  Another idea would be to reuse the old tunnels to access newly constructed platforms.  The lobby area used for the convention center could also be used for Amtrak until the convention center moves elsewhere.

[Jaxson]

Thanks, Lakelander.  I agree about the lobby of the convention center being used for the passenger terminal.
I completely disagree with the notion that convention goers and train passengers are somehow incompatible.  We could keep their facilities separate and allow for efficient movement of both groups.  It's not like they would end up in 'West Side Story'-style knife fights!

[thelakelander]

With that said, I do believe that the old terminal is a bad location for a convention center.  If the convention center remains there long term, its going to really screw up the layout for the Jax Transportation Center as well.  This will result in us having two ineffective destinations after pouring millions to build (JTC) and upgrade (Convention Center) them.

Mtraininjax is 100% right on the convention center relocation, it needs to go to the site of the current courthouse.  However, in the meantime, we need to get Amtrak back downtown ASAP.  If the Amtrak/FEC deal goes through, construction could start as early as April 2010.  No one will be waiting for Jax to get its act in order.

[Jaxson]

I agree - we need to move the convention center.  And, when the convention center is moved, we could have retail and dining move into the old convention center area.  It would be a nice complement to the train station.

[tufsu1]

The only error was placing a convention center without a HOTEL next to it. Penn Station has hotels around it, as does MSG. Have you ever tried to hail down a CAB from the Prime? They are parked all around the MSG, so think you could fall over them.

Graduations in Jacksonville occur at the Arena, not the CC.

Are you seriously comparing cabs in Jax. vs. NYC?

[mtraininjax]

Are you seriously comparing cabs in Jax. vs. NYC?

I don't know, are we REALLY comparing DC or NY to Jacksonville? I surely hope not.

[Ocklawaha]

Are you seriously comparing cabs in Jax. vs. NYC?

I don't know, are we REALLY comparing DC or NY to Jacksonville? I surely hope not.

mtraininjax, sure we can compare Jax to DC or NY, you and I are probably the only ones around here that know that in the height of the Great Florida Boom, Jacksonville Terminal, was the busiest (intercity trains) railroad station in the WORLD. BTW, we ARE making progress on Atlanta - Jax, (something you once asked me about) and you may be hearing more about it within a year. Thinking the Ponce De Leon/Royal Palm route is superior to the Dixie Flyer route, what's your (or anyone else that knows what we're talking about) opinion?

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

it is one thing to compare the potential for rail in various American cities....its another thing to compare the presence of taxis in ANY OTHER American city to that of NYC!

[FayeforCure]

R E S O L U T I O N
WHEREAS, the President and Congress of the United States have enacted the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) and the Passenger Rail Investment and Improvement Act of 2008 which will make at least $13 billion dollars available for high speed rail and intercity rail passenger service in the next five years, $8 billion dollars which is available under the ARRA for “shovel ready” high speed rail projects; and

WHEREAS, in 1992, the Tampa-Orlando-Miami corridor was designated as the Florida high speed rail corridor and one of our Nation’s ten national high speed rail corridors; and

WHEREAS, the Florida high speed rail corridor would provide service to 12.7 million Floridians, serving major urban counties with an overall average population density of 1,165 persons per square mile, equating to over 35,000 people per linear mile; and

WHEREAS, Florida can design, construct and commence operation of America’s fastest high speed rail system in the Orlando-Tampa corridor for less cost per mile and provide more Americans with greater exposure to true high speed rail than any project in the Nation; and

WHEREAS, development of high speed rail in the Orlando-Tampa corridor would connect a super-region with over 6.8 million citizens, two international airports with over 51 million passengers and tourist destinations that attract over 50 million visitors annually, all of which are served primarily by a single six-lane highway; and

WHEREAS, to date, as a result of several major studies and procurement processes costing over $10 million dollars, Florida also has identified two practical alternative corridors for the development of high speed rail service between Orlando and Miami; and

WHEREAS, the Orlando-Miami segment would provide connections to an additional 6 million people, two international airports with over 55 million annual passengers and three major seaports with over 8 million annual cruise ship passengers; and

WHEREAS, establishing long-distance traditional speed inter-city rail service between Jacksonville and Miami would link an additional 1.3 million Floridians to the Florida high speed rail corridor; and

WHEREAS, the combined projects establish a cost-effective foundation for commencing and developing high speed and inter-city rail service in Florida that would provide effective service to 14 million Floridians or approximately 76% of Florida’s residents; and

WHEREAS, Florida has consistently been a donor to the federal trust fund for highway and transit dollars with Florida receiving less than 30 cents back for each transit dollar it generates; and

WHEREAS, Florida is projected to experience higher levels of unemployment with a disproportionately higher impact on Florida’s building trades and the development of the proposed corridors would create over 25,000 permanent jobs and tens of thousands of construction jobs; and

WHEREAS, the development of high speed rail and intercity rail in Florida will catalyze the development of strong regional and local rail, including Central Florida commuter rail and bus transit systems, reduce congestion and air pollution and will promote better growth management; and

WHEREAS, federal funding of Florida’s Tampa-Orlando-Miami high speed rail and Jacksonville to Miami inter-city rail applications would meet the goals and objectives of President Obama and the U.S. Congress, providing greater funding equity to Florida, create jobs and lay a new foundation for economic prosperity.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Governor and Cabinet of the State of Florida do hereby support and urge President Obama, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and Federal Railroad Administrator Joseph C. Szabo to fully fund Florida’s applications.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Governor and Cabinet of the State of Florida do hereby urge and request that all members of Florida’s Congressional delegation support Florida’s high speed and inter-city rail applications.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Governor and Cabinet of the State of Florida does hereby urge and request that the Florida Legislature enthusiastically support Florida’s high speed and inter-city rail applications and take all reasonable and prudent steps to maximize Florida’s ability to qualify for these federal funds.

IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF the Governor and Cabinet of the State of Florida have hereunto subscribed their names and have caused the Official Seal of the State of Florida to be hereunto affixed in the City of Tallahassee on this 15th day of September, 2009.

http://www.myfloridacfo.com/PressOffice/Newsletter/2009/091809/September_1809Alt2.htm

John Mica has yet to endorse HSR for Florida. He is not among this list:

Federal Officials
U.S. Senator Bill Nelson
U.S. Senator Mel Martinez
U.S. Congresswoman Corrine Brown D-Jacksonville, Orlando
U.S. Congresswoman Kathy Castor D-Tampa
U.S. Congressman Lincoln Diaz-Balart, R-Miami
U.S. Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart, R-Miami
U.S. Congressman Alcee Hartings, D-Ft. Lauderdale and Miami
U.S. Congressman Alan Grayson, D-Orlando
U.S. Congressman Suzanne Kosmas, D-Orlando
U.S. Congresman Kendrick Meek, D-Miami
U.S. Congressman Adam Putnam, R-Lakeland
U.S. Congressman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Ft. Lauderdale
U.S. Congressman Robert Wexler, D-Palm Beach

http://www.fastrailconnectus.com/cms.php?action=Endorsements