JTA Skyway Riverside Extension

[tufsu1]

Kill it and pay the feds back on all the capital costs they invested into it. Where is all of that going to come from?

FSU, worry about it if we ever get the bill.  No one has yet even demonstrated this provision applies to the $ky-high-way.  So far, it remains an urban myth.  Thanks for keeping it going. 

Wouldn't it be too late to do something about it once we got the bill?

[jaxtrader]

It is no urban myth. It is clearly delineated. The city council has already raised the possiblity of tearing the skyway down, and been advised that the city would be liable for the Federal portion of construction expense. The Fed DOT may be able to waive that liability, but I don't think  the Obama administration would be amenable.

[stjr]

It is no urban myth. It is clearly delineated. The city council has already raised the possibility of tearing the skyway down, and been advised that the city would be liable for the Federal portion of construction expense. The Fed DOT may be able to waive that liability, but I don't think  the Obama administration would be amenable.

I haven't seen this City Council discussion in the press or on MJ.  Maybe you could enlighten us with the details since all City Council deliberations are subject to the public records law.

I do know that many apparently in-the-know posters on MJ haven't posted any documents supporting a Fed claw back.  Also, as previously noted in other posts, reasonably, there would have to be (a) a time limit to any such claw back as the Feds certainly don't expect the system to last forever, (b) a provision for its unmitigated functional/financial failure (I think the $ky-high-way clearly qualifies), or (c) at least a depreciation schedule that, over time, steps the claw back down to zero.

As to the politics, I don't know how you could predict that for this or any other administration.  If Corrine Brown tells Obama to forget about it, I am confident we would never have to pay the bill. 

[CS Foltz]

Pull the plug............give the Feds an IOU? Maybe Johnny can write a check or maybe Herb can give the City a low interest loan or grant....either way.......pull the freakin plug!

[Coolyfett]

I look forward to when it does get extended to the Riverside area. _ may consider moving back to Jax.

[vicupstate]

^^  No need to start packing yet.

[thelakelander]

I look forward to when it does get extended to the Riverside area. _ may consider moving back to Jax.

It's not being extended down Riverside Avenue anytime soon, if ever.  It was even pulled off the 2035 LRTP's list after a complaint from Councilman Joost.

[Coolyfett]

I look forward to when it does get extended to the Riverside area. _ may consider moving back to Jax.

It's not being extended down Riverside Avenue anytime soon, if ever.  It was even pulled off the 2035 LRTP's list after a complaint from Councilman Joost.

p

Joost? Interesting...Ive never hear of the guy. Why did the train expansion upset him?

[stjr]

Joost? Interesting...Ive never hear of the guy. Why did the train expansion upset him?

Maybe because...

It's a waste of money
There are far better ways to spend the money and get better results (can you say "streetcar"?)
We can't afford to build it OR operate it
It's not user friendly and never will be
There is no REAL demand for it
It's ugly
It's a street killer
It doesn't fit in
JTA isn't competent to make it work
It's a PROVEN failure no matter what proponents have done or said
It's a political albatross, a third rail not to be touched
Adjacent property owners might not want it
It has no credibility as a transit solution after 3 decades of disappointments and 95% shortfalls

Need I go on....just pick any one of the above and you will have more than enough to understand.

Just in case you are still lacking for a rationale, go back and read the hundreds of posts on the top 3 to 5 MJ threads on this subject and see if that helps.  Enjoy...

[billy]

Ock,
Could the tracks be retrofitted for a better type of car and operation system?

[Ocklawaha]

Meet the Skyway's kissing cousin, the Moscow Monorail. Note this is the Skyway on steroids, same basic train, not overbuilt, clean, and mixed with streetcar, bus, brt, train. Note too that it serves residential and business centers.

Ock,
Could the tracks be retrofitted for a better type of car and operation system?

There are far better ways to spend the money and get better results (can you say "streetcar"?)

Would have been far better ways to spend the money, but since it's spent and the core is in place, the only thing preventing results is the lack of resolve by the JTA and COJ to finish the damn thing.

We can't afford to build it OR operate it

We better be, because expansion of the Skyway per mile is on par with Light Rail Transit, and the Skyway could be built quite a bit cheaper then the unbuilt but engineered segments. Operations? We could run 4 Skyways off of the money used to paint the Hart Bridge, and a similar amount of operating capital equal to the amount of money the Mayor wants to pour into Metropolitan Park. Fact is, the Skyway is off the radar, and as such it is being abandoned through neglect.

It's not user friendly and never will be

Not a fault of the technology, rather this is a blame that can be laid at JTA's feet. Rosa Parks - filthy, day care - never opened, retail - never opened, kiosks - never built, residential links - never built, close headways - cut back, information booths - not maned, stations and cars - not clean, Garage - inaccessible, Hotel - misses it, Convention Center - isolated occasional use... and I'm sure we could come up with more.

There is no REAL demand for it

There is as much demand for it as there is for downtown auto traffic, city buses, water taxi's or streetcars. This argument just allows the anti-transit politicos to point and say, "see transit doesn't work." The demand has NEVER been marketed to the urban customer.

It's ugly

Strictly a matter of opinion, it has received rave reviews from several out of town visitors as well as international travelers that I've introduced to it. Anyone from anywhere besides Jacksonville, and that includes ORLANDO, will leave saying, "This is what Orlando needs!"

It's a street killer

Fly's above the street, and the possible street benefits, such as the festive tenting and awnings shown in the original plans were never built. In fact, had they followed their own plan, Hogan would have resembled our plans for Laura Street 30 years ago.

It doesn't fit in

Opinion again. Frankly we have a modern city with a modern monorail, it would be hard to find a better cosmetic fit. The transit fit isn't realized as JTA is determined to have the Skyway compete with it's bus system for riders.

JTA isn't competent to make it work

DING![/color]

It's a PROVEN failure no matter what proponents have done or said

Sounds like a self defeating prophecy, they could have finished it according to plan but left us with an "elevator" that only runs from the 8Th floor to the 12Th, in a building with 30.

It's a political albatross, a third rail not to be touched

Only because no one in the city understands transit and JTA will not stand and fight for anything on those occasions when they DO have it right. The City Council has become a ball-less wonder.

Adjacent property owners might not want it

That's what they told the Rio Grande before they laid tracks up the Royal Gorge. Everyone has a price or a condition, but nothing is impossible.

It has no credibility as a transit solution after 3 decades of disappointments and 95% shortfalls

Yep, for all the reasons we just listed.

BILLY: It could be with fair ease, but the monorail is quite able to handle new cars and not cost us to reinvent the whole system.


OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Gee Ock........what about all the riders it serves? I still say "Pull its plug"!

[Coolyfett]

Ill be glad when the population count gets up to 4 mil in Jax.

[tufsu1]

I look forward to when it does get extended to the Riverside area. _ may consider moving back to Jax.

It's not being extended down Riverside Avenue anytime soon, if ever.  It was even pulled off the 2035 LRTP's list after a complaint from Councilman Joost.

and now Coolyfett, you may understand why I also said the stadium extension won't happen.

[DavidWilliams]

Ill be glad when the population count gets up to 4 mil in Jax.

I will not. This city is still on a "big town" mentality. Let's not wish for things we can't yet handle.