Elements of Urbanism: Cincinnati 2009

[Metro Jacksonville]

Elements of Urbanism: Cincinnati 2009



Metro Jacksonville explores the urban core of the Midwest's Queen City: Cincinnati

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jun-elements-of-urbanism-cincinnati-2009

[jeh1980]

WKRP In Cinninnati! 

[copperfiend]

My wife's family is from Cincinnati and I spent some time there two years ago. It's a nice town but very spread out. It took at least an hour for us to drive from the Cincinnati airport (in Kentucky) to Northern Cincinnati.

As for the chili, to say people in Cincinnati love chili would be an understatement.  They obsess over it.

[zoo]

A great many pics showing prevalent signage and art -- two keys to urban vibrancy.

[Hurricane]

Cooler city than I thought.  The aerial electrical wires look terrible, but I like some of the architecture.  It's good to see by the numbers that JAX is growing compared to these other similar sized cities.  All we need is another Fortune 500 company to be based here and you never know...

[heights unknown]

Colorful, artistic looking city and clean to say the least; looks real good and nice in photos.  Too far up north for me though, wouldn't be able to tolerate those harsh, brutal, bone chilling winters.  Good to look at from pics or for a visit but wouldn't want to live there.  Think I'll keep Florida.

Heights Unknown

[heights unknown]

Cooler city than I thought.  The aerial electrical wires look terrible, but I like some of the architecture.  It's good to see by the numbers that JAX is growing compared to these other similar sized cities.  All we need is another Fortune 500 company to be based here and you never know...

Cincinnati has lost almost 200,000 people in the last 40 years or so.  Hard to say what happened for it to decline in size.  Seems to be humming right along though and Cincy was a much more major city in the 1950's when Jax was a smaller City. Great looking city as I said in previous post but wouldn't want to live there.

Heights Unknown

[brainstormer]

Your right, Hurricane, and if you were a fortune 500 company would you choose downtown Jacksonville as your headquarters?

A great photo tour of a city I've unfortunately only driven past.  Here are some things I noticed.

1.  Not one, but three hotels connected via skywalks to their convention center.  Building a new convention center on the old courthouse site gives us the option of including another hotel space in the design as well as connecting the Hyatt via skywalk over Market.

2.  We don't have a freeway keeping us from the river, so let's make the most of it!

3.  The city has lots and lots of shade trees along streets and parks.  We need to branch out and not just put palm trees in.  People like to get in out of the heat during summer and palm trees don't provide much shade.

4.  I noticed lots and lots of garbage cans and the streets seemed to be pretty clean.

5.  Outdoor Seating!  I love how Rock Bottom incorporated the nice fence and flowers.  I can't think of many places in our downtown that have flowers.

6.  I guess the Over the Rhine district is like San Marco or 5 points.  You don't notice many one story buildings in any of the pictures.  For example, Main Street in Springfield is full of all these sporadically placed one story buildings that are historical, but nothing like the beautiful architecture of the Rhine district.  I'm glad the new Third and Main ventured up.  The cool thing about the old 4-5 story buildings is that it allows for apartments above retail creating greater density and more walkable neighborhoods.  Adams Street from Ocean to Hogan might be a street that could really turn into something like this if we got more of the old buildings turned into residential with street level retail opportunities.

7.  I agree with zoo, I love the urban art and creative signage.  We should encourage fun and creative, not squash it.

[thelakelander]

Cincinnati has lost almost 200,000 people in the last 40 years or so.  Hard to say what happened for it to decline in size.  Seems to be humming right along though and Cincy was a much more major city in the 1950's when Jax was a smaller City. Great looking city as I said in previous post but wouldn't want to live there.

Heights Unknown

Cincinnati's population has declined for the same reason Jacksonville's urban core has fallen.  A mixture of things that include white flight, urban renewal, declining manufacturing base, and smaller household sizes.  The major difference is Cincinnati is not consolidated with its core county, so they were not able to hid their loses through suburban growth like we have.

[thelakelander]

6.  I guess the Over the Rhine district is like San Marco or 5 points.  You don't notice many one story buildings in any of the pictures.  For example, Main Street in Springfield is full of all these sporadically placed one story buildings that are historical, but nothing like the beautiful architecture of the Rhine district.  I'm glad the new Third and Main ventured up.  The cool thing about the old 4-5 story buildings is that it allows for apartments above retail creating greater density and more walkable neighborhoods.  Adams Street from Ocean to Hogan might be a street that could really turn into something like this if we got more of the old buildings turned into residential with street level retail opportunities.

Over-The-Rhine's demographics and historical struggles are similar to Springfield's.  An urban historic district close to downtown that became blighted and abandoned by city leaders during the second half of the 20th century.  After 75% vacancy rates, its now well into the process of gentrification. 

Architecturally, they are different but Cincinnati was built to be a much denser city.  Architecture aside, the largest difference between Over-The-Rhine and Springfield is that most of Over-The-Rhine's buildings still stand.  We got a little demo happy on Springfield's commercial structures.

[Ocklawaha]

Cincinnati's population has declined for the same reason Jacksonville's urban core has fallen.  A mixture of things that include white flight, urban renewal, declining manufacturing base, and smaller household sizes.  The major difference is Cincinnati is not consolidated with its core county, so they were not able to hid their loses through suburban growth like we have.

Lake our central city is so dead, we are way past "white flight," I think we're the only city that has experienced "black flight", "Hispanic flight," etc. Just the other day I saw a stampede of cockroaches leaving downtown Jax for the Beaches.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

We have our pockets of vibrancy.  San Marco, Riverside, Avondale, and Ortega come to mind.  Murray Hill and Springfield are rapidly coming back to life and Durkeeville is a decent working class neighborhood.  Unfortunately, all of these districts have been disconnected by senseless urban renewal projects, expressways, demolition and complete zones of abandonment.  This is why I continue to say that Jacksonville's urban core has great bones.  We just have to find a way to reconnect the vibrant spots with each other, downtown and trigger infill growth in the desolate spots that separate them.  Which brings us back to the thing that made the urban core boom in the first place......fixed mass transit .

[Joe]

You guys sure get around!

Cincinnati does have a very underrated downtown. Even many Cincinnati locals are unaware of how nice their downtown is (there were race riots in 2001. Many suburbanites haven't been back since.)

Cincinnati also has plenty of instructive examples of what NOT to do. It's a pretty good analog to Jacksonville.

- Sky-high taxes are pushing people out of city limits, even to this day
- Over-the-rhine is held back by a total saturation of social services that concentrate poverty and crime into the urban core.
- Tremendous racial tension. It puts the South to shame.
- Overspending. Their streetcar plan (while amazing) is projected at $25 million per lane-mile, and supporters refuse to consider a cheaper bi-directional track option. They've designed a $100 million downtown loop that could probably have been done for a bit over $30 million if they wanted to cut costs. Now the streetcar might not happen at all because of public opposition to the cost.
- Political bickering. The streetcar and the long-awaited riverfront redevelopment have been delayed for years because of political squabbling. It's basically like the Shipyards project and Courthouse, only worse.

[thelakelander]

Good points, Joe.  Especially about the streetcar.  What they have designed costs just as much as light rail, which kind of defeats the general idea behind the modern streetcar.  Also the concentration of social services in and around Over-The-Rhine makes it very comparable to the challenges Springfield faces.

[CrysG]

I remember going twice to Cincy in the last 4 years. One of the things that the Carew Tower has over the BOA tower is that it has AMAZING Art Deco decor on the inside. I went up to the observation tower and you can see views of the city for miles.

Cincinnati Museum Center has about 4 museums in it. The one I like the most is the history of Cincy. Similar to the one in MOSH but larger and more detailed.

Also notable that Cincy has over Jacksonville are <a href="http://www.cincinnatiparks.com/krohn-conservatory/index.shtml/" target="_blank">Krohn Conservatory</a>, Taft Museum and in Newport Ky they have Newport Aquarium