Elements of Urbanism: Nashville

[Wacca Pilatka]

A former co-worker of mine was from Nashville and he raved about it all the time. He used to play in some jam band their and said the music scene was amazing. So it got me thinking, since Jacksonville has a large population of jazz students, why don’t we have a stronger jazz presence in Jacksonville. Is it lack of venues, lack of desire to play? I know we just had the jazz fest and there are a few outdoor concerts, etc... I’m talking about walking downtown at night and hearing horns in the distance kind of vibe.

Good questions.  I've wondered for a while now why Jacksonville has been reluctant to promote its musical heritage on a much larger scale.  It seems like the ingredients are here, but they need to be better connected and clustered together.

I have seen at least three brilliant ideas on this in my lurking on this site for years.  First, the Southern Rock Hall of Fame concept; second, Ocklawaha's daughter's idea for the Jacksonville walk of fame with plaques; third, Stephen Dare's idea about preserving Genovar's Hall and selling souvenirs commemorating the many stars who performed in LaVilla.

What can be done to make some of these items happen?  I was not sure of the status of Genovar's Hall, which seems to have been in limbo eternally.  Something like the Walk of Fame seems like it can be implemented fairly easily; I'd donate to it.  Could CSX, which funded some of the Northbank Riverwalk plaques; or another company strongly dedicated to the core (e.g. Modis), be approached about assisting with this?  Has anyone heard anything about the Southern Rock Hall of Fame concept lately? 

[brainstormer]

All great ideas.  Two more I would add to the list are an Aquarium with maybe an underwater component utilizing the St. Johns.  Part of it could embrace the shipping history here in Jacksonville. 

We also need to encourage city leaders to support the museum ship being docked downtown.  I forgot the name of the developer, but it is posted somewhere on this site in another thread.

The question then becomes who invests and where do we strategically place destination points such as museums to benefit future growth in the urban core. 

[reednavy]

Damn it, glad to see I still can't spell at 22.

Anyways, that image of the Central Parking surface lot on Church St is one of another 4 along this most important downtown street. It really hurts it's connectivity and hurts the appeal. However, with plenty of new landscaping, music playing through hidden speakers, and an overall positive environment, this treet has become the breath of the new downtown. You'd be surprised to know that until the 1990's when Bredesen was then just starting as Nashville mayor, a law prohibited downtown residential developments. Thie first big one didn't come along until 4 years later in 1998 with The Cumberland built.

The Courthouse Square has a little known detail. Below it is an underground garage, and City Hall fronts is, not the courthouse. The Birch Courthouse is actually behind it, yet was built to mimic the art deco jewel that is Metro Nashville City Hall and Council Chambers.

I meant to say HCA is also near downtown, but most of the larger HQs are in the burbs. Such as Nissan in Franklin, Tractor Supply Company in Brentwood, Dollar General in Goodlettsville, and Franklin-American in Franklin. I also emant to mention that a fastly growing financial and banking company, Pinnacle Finanical is HQd downtown, and will move into their shiny, new The Pinnacle, which can be seen in various images.

Edgefield is actually more like what Springfield can become, and not so much Midtown. I'd argue with Brooklyn becoming like Nashville's Midtown. One thing that can really help downtown Jax is by intigrating FSCJ more with the downtown surroundings and switching the two one way speedways around it.

[Joe]

Again, I really like Nashville a lot. In many other ways, it's a good example to follow. For example, the area around Vanderbilt is an awesome illustration of suburban chain stores that have been slowly retrofitted by an urban zoning overlay. It's really fantastic.

My guess is that the Springfield Overlay will result in similar development.  3rd & Main is a good example of this.  A zoning overlay that reduces maximum building setback and off-street parking requirements should be developed for the entire urban core, imo.

I couldn't agree more, Lakelander. I'd go as far to suggest that for commercial zones outside the urban core too - Parts of San Jose Blvd, University Blvd, or even parts of Blanding! An urban inspired form-based zoning (with density bonus) could serve as a huge revitalization tool.

[JaxByDefault]

Nashville is a great example of what can be done with a decaying city. As a former resident, I can attest that pretty much anything inside of the 440 ring road (and probably a couple of neighborhoods just outside of it like Green Hills, Avalon, Lipscomb, Berry Hill, etc.) are rather walkable.

The city only appears to revolve around country music if you don't live there, but the tourism draw certainly helps. It's fairly easy to ignore of you're not into it and thanks to the abundance of session musicians, there's a good music scene of all sorts. I hate country music and I found plenty of things to keep me in downtown, Hillsboro Village, West End, and elsewhere several nights a week.  Look among the bars and tourist shops and it's still a workable downtown.

There's a huge difference between living in urban and suburban Nashville. While many have now embraced a more vibrant urban core, there was a time when most suburbanites came downtown only for a conert or a Titans' game (but even then, they stayed downtown for a few hours). We found that most friends in burbs claimed there was hardly a reason to come downtown or that is was dangerous, so instead they stayed happily ensconsed in Brentwood or Franklin. So I'd say Nashville fought many of the same hearts & mind stumbling blocks to revitalization as Jackosnville.

I'd say that the Jacksonville-Nashville development gap is explained mostly by:
1) Mayoral leadership that embraced downtown revitalization and expert planning. (It took 2 good mayors in a row.)
2) Nashville has an identity as a city...which means tourism dollars
3) Nashville has several universities in the urban core
4) Nashville used the Titans as way to get local back downtown and rejuvenate interest in struggling urban areas.
5) Neighborhoodism is embraced in urban Nashville. There are several neighborhoods that Jax locals could equate to Riverside/Avondale (Hillsboro Village, Belmont -12 South-Avalon, Sylvan Park...) in terms of a live-work-play mix.  Nashville's Springfield equivilent, East Nashville, attracted edgy bars and new restaurants long before most of the old houses were restored or infill residential began.
6) Nashville has a master urban development plan and a skilled, experienced planning office that is neither too developer friendly, nor too rigid in their vision.

Nashville provided a better lifestyle during it's "growing pangs" period than Jax does currently. If I could afford my old neighborhood, and the city would move into the eastern time zone, I'd go back in heartbeat--and that' saying a lot for an urbanite who was reluctantly dragged to Tennessee by career and spouse.

Jax has great bones to work with --and fantastic proximity to the beach -- having experienced Nashville and several other cities' relatively rapid renewal, it's frustrating to see Jax struggle.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Since CSX provided the other riverwalk plaques in the recent past, I was thinking of writing CSX about the Walk of Fame plaques idea.  Does anyone on the board have a particular connection to CSX or another suggestion?  Any particular suggestion on where a Walk of Fame would be located--Bay?  Laura?  Riverwalk?

[heights unknown]

A former co-worker of mine was from Nashville and he raved about it all the time. He used to play in some jam band their and said the music scene was amazing. So it got me thinking, since Jacksonville has a large population of jazz students, why don’t we have a stronger jazz presence in Jacksonville. Is it lack of venues, lack of desire to play? I know we just had the jazz fest and there are a few outdoor concerts, etc... I’m talking about walking downtown at night and hearing horns in the distance kind of vibe.

Good questions.  I've wondered for a while now why Jacksonville has been reluctant to promote its musical heritage on a much larger scale.  It seems like the ingredients are here, but they need to be better connected and clustered together.

Being a musician and having lived in Jacksonville, there is really no "firm" musical and foundation root(s) in Jacksonville.  Someone mentioned the jazz students that attend the scool of jazz, and why we don't capitalize on that; well...it takes someone, or a group to get that idea off the carpet and running; until there are venues and places for those jazz students and others into jazz to showcase the music, and turn jazz into something that is identifiable with Jacksonville, it won't happen.

So what can Jacksonville capitalize on "music-wise?"  Well, we all know that country-rock, country, and rock in general are pretty solid staples in Jacksonville, as is the old "classic rock" genre from the 60's and 70's, we should try and capitalize on that.  And...a few stars, mainly classic rock, country rock and rock are from Jacksonville, Lynard Skynard is a prime example, capitalize on them.

Just a thought.

Heights Unknown

[heights unknown]

Nashville is a great example of what can be done with a decaying city. As a former resident, I can attest that pretty much anything inside of the 440 ring road (and probably a couple of neighborhoods just outside of it like Green Hills, Avalon, Lipscomb, Berry Hill, etc.) are rather walkable.

The city only appears to revolve around country music if you don't live there, but the tourism draw certainly helps. It's fairly easy to ignore of you're not into it and thanks to the abundance of session musicians, there's a good music scene of all sorts. I hate country music and I found plenty of things to keep me in downtown, Hillsboro Village, West End, and elsewhere several nights a week.  Look among the bars and tourist shops and it's still a workable downtown.

There's a huge difference between living in urban and suburban Nashville. While many have now embraced a more vibrant urban core, there was a time when most suburbanites came downtown only for a conert or a Titans' game (but even then, they stayed downtown for a few hours). We found that most friends in burbs claimed there was hardly a reason to come downtown or that is was dangerous, so instead they stayed happily ensconsed in Brentwood or Franklin. So I'd say Nashville fought many of the same hearts & mind stumbling blocks to revitalization as Jackosnville.

I'd say that the Jacksonville-Nashville development gap is explained mostly by:
1) Mayoral leadership that embraced downtown revitalization and expert planning. (It took 2 good mayors in a row.)
2) Nashville has an identity as a city...which means tourism dollars
3) Nashville has several universities in the urban core
4) Nashville used the Titans as way to get local back downtown and rejuvenate interest in struggling urban areas.
5) Neighborhoodism is embraced in urban Nashville. There are several neighborhoods that Jax locals could equate to Riverside/Avondale (Hillsboro Village, Belmont -12 South-Avalon, Sylvan Park...) in terms of a live-work-play mix.  Nashville's Springfield equivilent, East Nashville, attracted edgy bars and new restaurants long before most of the old houses were restored or infill residential began.
6) Nashville has a master urban development plan and a skilled, experienced planning office that is neither too developer friendly, nor too rigid in their vision.

Nashville provided a better lifestyle during it's "growing pangs" period than Jax does currently. If I could afford my old neighborhood, and the city would move into the eastern time zone, I'd go back in heartbeat--and that' saying a lot for an urbanite who was reluctantly dragged to Tennessee by career and spouse.

Jax has great bones to work with --and fantastic proximity to the beach -- having experienced Nashville and several other cities' relatively rapid renewal, it's frustrating to see Jax struggle.

Obviously Nashville's leadership has been top quality leaders and they have been on the ball.  Here we are (Jax) 5 Mayors or more later, and our downtown is still incomplete, too many undeveloped surface parking lots, empty lots, sparse developments with little or no infills, and the whole downtown in a very badly planned and unorganized condition.

Hope it gets better soon.  Top notch, high visioned and well focused leaders are the biggest key.

Heights Unknown

[Wacca Pilatka]

Basically the entire Southern rock genre was born in Jacksonville.  In addition to Skynyrd, the Allmans played there in their formative years, and many of the next tier bands (Molly Hatchet, .38 Special, several others whose names are escaping me now) have Jacksonville roots.  

Who exactly was involved in the Southern Rock Hall of Fame concept that was vaguely discussed in '06-'07?  With the Van Zant family still part of the area, I'd imagine they could be approached about involvement with promotion and memorabilia donation.

[heights unknown]

All great ideas.  Two more I would add to the list are an Aquarium with maybe an underwater component utilizing the St. Johns.  Part of it could embrace the shipping history here in Jacksonville. 

We also need to encourage city leaders to support the museum ship being docked downtown.  I forgot the name of the developer, but it is posted somewhere on this site in another thread.

The question then becomes who invests and where do we strategically place destination points such as museums to benefit future growth in the urban core. 

Or how about making a long stretch of the Riverwalk, on both sides, an aquarium by having those long stretches made out of high textured glass where we can actually see into the River...boy, that would be breathtaking, seeing the River bottom, fish, litter (LOL), etc. from the Riverwalk.

Heights Unknown

[heights unknown]

Basically the entire Southern rock genre was born in Jacksonville.  In addition to Skynyrd, the Allmans played there in their formative years, and many of the next tier bands (Molly Hatchet, .38 Special, several others whose names are escaping me now) have Jacksonville roots.  

Who exactly was involved in the Southern Rock Hall of Fame concept that was vaguely discussed in '06-'07?  With the Van Zant family still part of the area, I'd imagine they could be approached about involvement with promotion and memorabilia donation.

That is a great idea Wacca Pilatka about having the Van Zant family involved; I'll bet they'd be honored and proud to be a part in the promotion and planning of such an idea.

Heights Unknown

[BridgeTroll]

Snyder church is the obvious jazz venue.  Refurbish the interior and exterior... add a full bar.  Out side on the sidewalk(where the cops park) you could have a sidewalk act.  Across the street at hemming could be utilized on weekends.  There you have it. 

Jazz venue extraordinaire!!

[BOfficer]

I'm from Nashville originally, and I can tell you...pre-mid 90's, the Nashville downtown was a mess.  No one there, no one lived there, no entertainment, no dining....much like Jax downtown. 

Nashville created a city center.  Jacksonville has always struggled to create a city center due to the natural draw of so many wanting to live near the beach. 

Nashville, San Antonio, Charlotte, good cities for us to model after.  They have done it right!

www.BradOfficer.com

[stjr]

One thing that seems obvious to me:  Even though some thought Jacksonville's sidewalks were adequate when I raised the issue on a thread, these pictures tell me "no way!".  Nashville's walks are much wider, nicely treed for shade, and much more pedestrian friendly.  Jax couldn't handle these crowds if we had them.   We need to take a much harder look at our streetscapes.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Snyder church is the obvious jazz venue.  Refurbish the interior and exterior... add a full bar.  Out side on the sidewalk(where the cops park) you could have a sidewalk act.  Across the street at hemming could be utilized on weekends.  There you have it. 

Jazz venue extraordinaire!!

Near me in Norfolk, there is an old church called Freemason Abbey that was converted to a popular restaurant.  Its physical similarity to the Snyder always makes me picture Snyder as a restaurant or performance venue.  Maybe its use at the jazz festival will be an inspiration to an investor.