'Eyesore' hotel in downtown Jacksonville heading for demolition

[brainstormer]

On a related note.  Who can tell me about the yellow brick building on the left of Main Street as you head north into Springfield?  It is right before where JEA took a crap and fenced it in. 

I know it was known as the City Engineers' Building and it is featured in Jacksonville's Architectural Heritage, right at the end of the downtown chapter.  Architect is unknown.  If you don't have the book I'd be glad to look up the full writeup on it later.
[/quote]

Thanks Wacca, more info would be great.  I think it is a beautiful building that seems to get lost in it's ugly surroundings.  An under-appreciated gem that I hope is being fully used and maintained.

[Wacca Pilatka]

It looks like it's in good condition, at least.  I took pictures of it in December.  I'll look up the JAH listing for it this evening.

[zoo]

The market determines  whether a particular business model will or will not succeed.  Overly simple, but the basis.

This presumes every business owner is diligent enough to continuously observe the market, perceptive enough to accurately assess it, and strategic enough to implement adaptation.

Strider, you haven't changed your business model, and it seems Three Layers' success proves you should, according to your premise. They opened a well-designed, thoughtfully-missioned and smartly-operated coffee/cake house that shouldn't have opened in a market full of bums, hookers, drug dealers, etc, right? Yet they have been successful (they have also adapted with lunch menu, and now the Cellar and event space). If they have been successful, does that mean they are assessing the Springfield market correctly and you are not? If 3rd & Main gets market rate for its units, does that mean they have correctly assessed the market and you haven't?

Creativity and innovation can change a market, and even create one where there was none. There just isn't enough of it.

[zoo]

...and I hope whatever new goes on the Park View Inn site comes out of thorough submarket assessment, smart planning and creative thinking (even if it takes awhile)  .

[zoo]

Whose tail did monkeys fly out of? 

[sheclown]

Now I would argue that 3 Layers is successful because it does allow all sorts of people in.  I've seen many bums hanging around, and all are welcome.     All you need is a buck an a half.

[Omarvelous09]

If this building was on the North or West side...would any of you really care?

[vicupstate]

There use to the a high rise at I-95 and 20th St. expressway.  It was a high-rise verson of the Parkview Inn, and it TRULY reminded me of Beirut.  It finally was torn down, thankfully. 

Because it was so noticeable and left a black mark on the entire city, I did care about that one. 

I see your point though.  Out of sight, out of mind does apply to the situation.

[strider]

This presumes every business owner is diligent enough to continuously observe the market, perceptive enough to accurately assess it, and strategic enough to implement adaptation.

Strider, you haven't changed your business model, and it seems Three Layers' success proves you should, according to your premise. They opened a well-designed, thoughtfully-missioned and smartly-operated coffee/cake house that shouldn't have opened in a market full of bums, hookers, drug dealers, etc, right? Yet they have been successful (they have also adapted with lunch menu, and now the Cellar and event space). If they have been successful, does that mean they are assessing the Springfield market correctly and you are not? If 3rd & Main gets market rate for its units, does that mean they have correctly assessed the market and you haven't?

Creativity and innovation can change a market, and even create one where there was none. There just isn't enough of it.

Along with Stephen I have to agree...up to a point.  As far as Springfield goes, it is a very mixed market and unless you actually think everyone in Springfield is a .."bums, hookers, drug dealers" ...  to use your words, then of course there is room for places like three layers as well as the the BP up the street.  If they had opened five years earlier, they may not have lasted this long.  If they are truly successful, and I hope they are, then they will be around a long time.  Three layers even lets the likes of you and me in so they are also all inclusive.  They are lucky to have that mixed market that exists today as they would not have survived in the Springfield of the nineties. And many of the changes they have made is realizing that dollars do not matter as much as pennys do in todays market.

The problem with this discussion is that we are all right..to some extent.  Creativity and innovation can certainly create a new market but...and there is always a but ... the market actually has to exist in some fashion first and the creativity is more tapping into it than creating it. The market is also fickle and can go away on you or change on you as fast as it came to you.

By the way, with my business model, the adapting sometimes is just introducing the guys to Three Layers...some have become regulars.  Which basically means that the more sucessful places like Three Layers and 3rd and Main are, the better it is for my business model.  Good business is adapting all the time.  Standing still is a good way to lose sight of what is needed in the current economic enviroment...that society making the market - the marketing determining the sucessful business model thing again. Creativity and innovation certainly helps with that, but doesn't change the facts of it.

[Wacca Pilatka]

On a related note.  Who can tell me about the yellow brick building on the left of Main Street as you head north into Springfield?  It is right before where JEA took a crap and fenced it in. 

I know it was known as the City Engineers' Building and it is featured in Jacksonville's Architectural Heritage, right at the end of the downtown chapter.  Architect is unknown.  If you don't have the book I'd be glad to look up the full writeup on it later.

Thanks Wacca, more info would be great.  I think it is a beautiful building that seems to get lost in it's ugly surroundings.  An under-appreciated gem that I hope is being fully used and maintained.
[/quote]

OK, here is the full entry from JAH...

CITY ENGINEER'S BUILDING
904 NORTH MAIN STREET
DATE: 1911-1912
ARCHITECT: UNKNOWN
BUILDER: W.P. RICHARDSON & CO.


The processions of architecture and engineering became regulated in Florida in 1915 and 1918 respectively, but these enactments did little to end the rivalry between the two disciplines.  There has always been an acknowledged overlap between architecture and some of the engineering specialties in the design work on buildings, and this lingering feud may hold the key to the enigma of who designed the City Engineer's Building.  The well developed Prairie-style facade shows the talents of a highly accomplished designer, and yet extensive research has revealed no architect's name mentioned during the construction of this building.  The city's engineering department employed draftsmen, including Hubert L. Cornelison, whose preliminary drawings for the building were recently discovered.  These plans show a building only two stories in height and with a more conventional facade.

In October 1911, the Board of Bond Trustees selected the firm of W.P. Richardson & Company, which advertised itself as "Engineers and general contractors...designers and superintendents," to construct the building using Richardson's own design for the reinforced-concrete frame.  The three-man special committee of the board in charge of the plans of the building included Frank M. Richardson, whose relationship, if any, to W.P. Richardson is unknown.  Frank Richardson was a contractor and competitor of W.P. Richardson, and he had just completed building two of Klutho's finest Prairie-style buildings--the Seminole Hotel and Morocco Temple--and was underway with the construction of Klutho's Florida Life Building at that time.  His collaboration in designing the Prairie-style facade of the Engineering Building is a distinct possibility.

In November of 1911, the committee approved changing the building to three stories, and apparently the present configuration of the building was then finalized.  Another intriguing bit of evidence is an unsigned, undated rendering of the building's southern facade, which shows the three-story building as seven bays long--nearly one-third longer than actual construction.  Unlike the initial plans drawn by Cornelison, this drawing shows a very different style of lettering, similar to that used by architects of the day.  One other possibility of the origin for the design stems from the building's similarity in proportion and rhythm to the Black Masonic Temple, also started in 1911.  It was designed by Mark & Sheftall, two young architects who had just opened their own firm after three years' apprenticeship in Klutho's office.  It is possible that they collaborated on the final facade design as one of their earliest commissions, yet without receiving credit for designing the entire building.

At any rate, the rivalry between architectural and engineering professions may have caused the engineers for whom the building was constructed to avoid the services of an architect altogether, or at least give no credit to any architects responsible for the design.  Whether the present building was designed by Cornelison, W.P. Richardson, Frank Richardson, Mark & Sheftall, or another unnamed architect, the designer will probably remain unknown.  The City Engineer's Building was renovated in 1983 by Florida Junior College, and is one of the most handsome vintage buildings left on Main Street.

[Omarvelous09]

There use to the a high rise at I-95 and 20th St. expressway.  It was a high-rise verson of the Parkview Inn, and it TRULY reminded me of Beirut.  It finally was torn down, thankfully. 

Because it was so noticeable and left a black mark on the entire city, I did care about that one. 

I see your point though.  Out of sight, out of mind does apply to the situation.

Was that the same one at Golfair & 95-N? i remember that hotel, my sister had her sweet 16 there. Like the parkview that hotel was a vital part of the community (also established in the 60's), but as the building started to decline...and the decision to demolish was made.. no one made a big fuss about it. How is the parkview inn any different? Does anybody remember when parkview served as subsidised housing? It was the final attempt at revitalization...and even that failed. There are so many other great things that the property could be used for, hopefully whatever is done will help beautify downtown Jacksonville..why not let it happen?

[thelakelander]

^That was the old Holiday Inn.  I believe there was another one at Emerson and I-95 that was torn down as well.

[ChriswUfGator]

^That was the old Holiday Inn.  I believe there was another one at Emerson and I-95 that was torn down as well.

Yup, I remember that one in the University/Emerson/I-95 area.

It was a Holiday Inn when I first got here, then it became a Ramada run by a family from India who I think did zero maintenance the whole time they owned it. It rapidly ran downhill until it got so bad that their franchise was yanked, at which point it became an absolute dump of a rent-by-the-week flop-house.

The City finally shut it down, at which point it became even more of a magnet for addicts, hobos, and hookers. I suspect COJ was responsible for the demolition, which only happened a year or two ago and couldn't have come soon enough. The University / Emerson / 95 area isn't a ghetto, but that roach-motel was quickly dragging the whole area down. It doesn't matter where it's located, having one of those things around causes problems for the entire neighborhood.

Same thing with that beirut-esque highrise on the Northside. They become magnets for a lot of unsavory stuff that does the entire area a disservice.

[mtraininjax]

Park View Inn and Springfield, what a combination.

Maybe this is the second coming of Springfield, Halleluah!

[zoo]

mttraininjax, the thread is about the Park View Inn coming down because it doesn't fit in with the changing Downtown and Springfield environments.

On an unrelated note, I read all of your responses from last night, and wonder if you had a bad day? Another example of something that doesn't fit is Walt Disney's quote with your mood. Hope today is a better one for you!