Affordable Streetcar: New Orleans

[kzinn]

Part of the beauty of rail is that you can customize it to fit the need. There really is no reason that RTA in New Orleans (MSY) has 100 stops on Canal Street. In other words one could build the streetcars with express service as well as locals. The fact is RTA in MSY operates on a system designed in the 1830's-90's, just a BIT out of touch to todays needs. A modern Jacksonville streetcar even using vintage equipment would be a welcome addition to our lack of mass transit. The negative arguments only serve to push the Peyton, Gate, Good Ol' Boy network into keeping us in the dark.


OCKLAWAHA: Hi, I don't really see my comments as negative arguments, they certainly aren't meant as much. The fact is the NOLA system doesn't work in the way I think everyone hopes that the JAX system will and as a former resident of NOLA I felt compelled to write as much. Personally I feel that maybe a better approach would have been "Lessons we can learn from the NOLA system", you know exploring both the positive and the negative as away of learning from other people's mistakes. This sort of constructive criticism serves to better our system, and is in no way meant to keep us in the dark. We all know not all transit systems are successful, and the more we look at both sides, the more we learn. I've lived in 6 US cities and have taken public transit to and from work in all of them but one, JAX, I would love to see public transit in JAX, but I don't want to see the skyway all over again. The NOLA streetcar is not much better than the the skyway, it's a tourist ride, let's find out why, so we don't make the same mistakes! In my opinion it is due to the lack of reliability due to traffic on the medians, and the frequency of stops.

[thelakelander]

kzinn, if you don't mind, would you like writing a guest article about the New Orleans system?  I would love to see what type of solutions a former resident would bring to the table to make sure those problems are avoided locally.

As for the skyway comparison, the New Orleans system has over 25 miles of track.  The skyway is a 2.5 mile monorail.  25 miles of fixed rail would connect Orange Park to Jax International Airport.  Regardless of transit authority management issues, I'd trade the skyway for the New Orleans streetcar network any day.

[thelakelander]

Also, while everyone discusses how the New Orleans system is run, remember the article's main focus is on infrastructure (keeping implementation costs low), not day-to-day management of how the system is operated.  For example, to improve service reliability for commuters, express trains could be added or stops eliminated to speed up travel times.  Gates could also be added to eliminate blockage from automobiles crossing the median.  Regardless of if these things are done or not, the infrastructure points made in the article (median running, bi-directional lines, to keep implementation costs down) don't change.

[Charles Hunter]

Hasn't it been posted here before that another way to cut streetcar infrastructure costs, is to have a single track with passing sidings at appropriate locations?  Until the frequency of streetcars reaches some critical point, this seems like a real money-saver to get the service on the ground.  Perhaps get a two-fer, have the passing tracks at stations, so the Express thelakelander mentioned could go past another streetcar stopped at the station.

Another way to reduce auto/streetcar conflict, with a streetcar in the median, is to close some of the medians to cross traffic, especially where there are short blocks.  I know this is controversial (witness the complaints about Main Street's new medians), but it would be safer, improve streetcar operations (which could encourage more ridership), and be cheaper than putting crossing gates and all their attendant detection equipment, at every cross street.

[New Orleans Ladder]

Hey Y'all.
I forgot to mention that, if you are looking to buy upgraded streetcars, Memphis TN is strongly rumored to be getting out of the business. http://www.matatransit.com/trolleyService.aspx They tried a line downtown in the '90s, but really haven't expanded or marketed it well enough. These are 1920's era cars and excellently restored. They may have DOZENS. I know they have at least 10. http://trains.uoregon.edu/drupal/gallery/railroads/memphisstreetcars/  You might check them out, get a good deal?

I wouldn't let Memphis' record with this form of transit dissuade you from pursuing streetcar transit. It is a fine way to go. The problem always falls to logistics and execution. Here is a link to that New Transit thinking: http://www.transportfornola.org/map.html
As well, you can't use anything in New Orleans as a standard for anything, 'cept maybe love and heartbreak.
Ha! Ain't y'all learnt'dat yet?

Thanks youz,
Editilla~New Orleans Ladder

[Ocklawaha]

Does Memphis hate Trolleys? Look at the photo!

What you heard is not correct... Memphis has had so much success that they ARE looking at upgrading their vintage streetcars and going with a full blown LRT system. No doubt this has led some to believe the vintage cars are going to close down, but that's about as likely as flying elephants. Last year I went into Memphis on a typical weeknight, and holy Moses, the place was hopping and the streetcars were packed with overflow crowds.


GEE, Looks just like our PCT Trolleys that JTA owns! NOT!

Another part of this story is hidden under the Memphis Airport. Years ago the new HUB airport was designed based on the classical train stations such as Memphis Union Station. The Airport has a history center and they will tell you there has never been buildings designed to move so many so quickly as the grand old stations. Now not only does the inside duplicate the old railroad stations, underneath it there are platforms and tunnels for a future LIGHT RAIL system! When they built they built thinking YEARS into the future, a future that now seems right around the corner.


MEMPHIS is putting their money where their mouths are! SIC TRANSIT GLORIA!

Memphis too has seen a return on it's streetcar investment that hits the national average of about $1,200 dollars of new downtown development for every dollar they invested in streetcars. Those streetcars are not going anywhere but the next street corner.

LA, Dallas, Little Rock, Portland, Ft. Smith, Charlotte, Tampa, and Houston, are all expanding their streetcars too.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Hasn't it been posted here before that another way to cut streetcar infrastructure costs, is to have a single track with passing sidings at appropriate locations?  Until the frequency of streetcars reaches some critical point, this seems like a real money-saver to get the service on the ground.

Yes, this is where most of the potential money saved to initially implement could come from. 

[jaxphotocat]

I like the idea of two lines one in each direction and that if there is some rail system ever here in Jacksonville that it go over intersections.  If it is restricted by car traffic then what is the point. 

The goal in this city should be to run lines from downtown to the beaches and to mandarin.  Those two paths could offer the great traffic relief.

I have been to other cities and the ability that some form of proper rail transport offers is simply fantastic.

[New Orleans Ladder]

Man this is the coolest discussion on Streetcars I have ever seen! Love those extra pics, Ocklawaha. What I heard about the trolleys in Memphis is coming from the business owners where I work on the south Main St end of that line. Businesses are dying down there during the week. Maybe you hit downtown and Beale Street on a busy Hornets Pro Basketball weekend? That is why I couched it as "rumor". Fact of the matter is that Memphis city government is considering redevelopment of their pedestrian mall and that includes the disposition of the entire trolley service. Another reason for your figure of $1200 dollars investment/dollar-trolley is because businesses are closing at such a rate that new ones come in quickly to invest, only to close themselves soon after.
They are not talking concrete plans to expand any of that trolley line.
However, on the New Orleans front, more news: http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/federal_grant_potential_financ.html

Thank you,
Editilla~New Orleans Ladder

[thelakelander]

From the New Orleans article......

Although a $1.5 billion pool of federal dollars earmarked for transportation projects is fueling optimism, securing the estimated $200 million total needed for the three proposed lines remains a daunting challenge. Work on the $161 million Canal Street line, which debuted in April 2004, spanned about 15 years from conception to completion.

The new proposals being considered by the RTA call for laying tracks along the North Rampart Street and St. Claude Avenue corridor, Loyola Avenue and Convention Center Boulevard.

The brightest prospect for financing is a component of President Barack Obama's stimulus package known as the Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery, or TIGER, grant program. Unlike traditional forms of federal aid that require local matches of as much as 50 percent, the $1.5 billion fund will pay 100 percent of the construction costs of selected projects. The application deadline is Sept. 15.

Because the RTA projects are already on the drawing boards, local officials think they might have an advantage over other transit agencies.

[Ocklawaha]

Interesting numbers there Lake, I talked to City hall to get their impressions, but the people on the other end of the phone kept falling asleep...

I'm thinking Memphis might cash out a single streetcar line and rebuild it to LRT standards. That would certainly seem to the locals that the trolleys are going away. They Won't. That Memphis plans on streetcars into the Light Rail future, check the top of the cars. PANTOGRAPHS rather then trolley poles. This isn't very appealing from a cosmetic standpoint, but if your planning on going 80 MPH with a 100 year old car, that would certainly be the way to do it.

New Orleans? Memphis? Jacksonville? A bit of historic advice:
"Climb Mount Nitaka"
TIGER TIGER TIGER!

OCKLAWAHA

[Lunican]

New Orleans back on track in calm after storm
June 12, 2009

The mayor says the city of jazz has got its rhythm back, writes Andrew West.

IN THE months after Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans in 2005, the city's mayor says the eeriest feeling was not the unusual quiet in the French Quarter, where jazz once reigned, but on Saint Charles Avenue.

For almost a year, the trams along the avenue - made famous by Tennessee Williams's play A Streetcar Named Desire - were off their tracks, destroyed by the hurricane.

"New Orleans has certain rhythms, and the streetcars are one of the rhythms. When they were not there, the city lost its rhythm," said the mayor, Ray Nagin. "Now you can hear that clankety-clank coming down the street again, and it gives people a sense that we're getting back to normal."

Mr Nagin is in Sydney to address a conference of the US Studies Centre at the University of Sydney, and last night took part in a City Talk discussion on climate change, presented by the City of Sydney and the Herald. He has become an enthusiastic advocate of public transport - and not simply for its aesthetic quality.

After Katrina, he said, the tram network would be vital for saving lives in future emergencies, especially in a city where almost 25 per cent of the residents had traditionally not owned cars. "We will have voluntary and, I hope, not too many mandatory evacuations almost every hurricane season," he said.

He is expanding the tram network with three new lines, including one to the Upper Ninth Ward, close to the area that was ground zero during Katrina. The trams will be linked to Union Station, where the interstate Amtrak trains arrive. "Our most efficient evacuation tool that we have in our arsenal is Amtrak trains," he said. "They move thousands of people out of the city very quickly. This was a lesson learned from Katrina. When Katrina hit, we did not have access to Amtrak but after Katrina we modified all our evacuation plans and now Amtrak is a critical part of it."

The city tested evacuation by train during last year's panic over Hurricane Gustav, which ultimately missed New Orleans.

He also wants to take advantage of the plan by the US President, Barack Obama, to build a high-speed rail line throughout the southern US to connect New Orleans to the job-rich corridor north to the Louisiana capital of Baton Rouge.

Mr Nagin has been widely criticised for the slow pace of rebuilding of New Orleans. But he insists that following "an event of biblical proportions", the city is ahead of the average recovery period of 10 years.

He said the population, including migrant workers, had returned to 80 per cent of its pre-Katrina level of about 500,000. Reconstruction work worth $20 billion had also created a booming economy.

More controversially, he has demolished every public housing estate in the city, aiming to disperse low-income housing throughout mixed-income areas.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/new-orleans-back-on-track-in-calm-after-storm-20090611-c50d.html

[Ocklawaha]

The CITY OF NEW ORLEANS (a famous train)

The City Of New Orleans is the only other deep south city besides Memphis, that is anywhere near the league of Jacksonville in having a Union Station and being able to hub trains from it. However to date only the BIG EASY has made any use of Amtrak 403-B or 403-C State assisted train service. Memphis still has one of it's large old stations downtown while New Orleans is more 1940's Modern and replaced a much smaller Greek looking building.

NOUPT = New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal, has room for reconstruction of yard tracks and is already serving all of the regional and Greyhound/Trailways buses as well as AMTRAK. They can field trains to Jacksonville, Mobile, Birmingham, Memphis, Baton Rouge x3, Shreveport x2, Houston x3. Memphis on the other hand has been operating under the gun of Mr Environment AL GORE, and they have done NOTHING to bring back the trains, if they ever do they could hub: Birmingham - Jacksonville, Birmingham - Atlanta, Chattanooga - Knoxville - DCA, Nashville, Louisville, St. Louis, Chicago, Little Rock - Tulsa, Dallas,Baton Rouge, New Orleans.
JACKSONVILLE on the other hand CAN and probably will in MY LIFETIME hub a host of routes:
Daytona Beach - Miami
Orlando - Miami
Orlando - Tampa
Ocala - Tampa - Ft. Myers
Ocala - Tampa - Sarasota
Tallahassee - Pensacola - New Orleans
Waycross - Montgomery - Birmingham
Jessup - Atlanta (Chattanooga/Nashville/Chicago)
Valdosta - Macon - Atlanta (Cincinnati/Chicago/Cleveland/Detroit)
Savannah - Columbia - Raleigh - DCA - NYC
Savannah - Columbia - Charlotte - Charlottesville - DCA - NYC
Savannah - Charleston - Fayetteville - DCA - NYC
Savannah - Charleston - Fayetteville - Portsmouth - Norfolk

All of this will be served by buses and streetcars in Memphis and New Orleans. In JACKSONVILLE it COULD be served by Buses, BRT, Streetcar, Water Taxi, Monorail, again putting us in a "LEAGUE OF OUR OWN!"

Start expanding the Monorail YESTERDAY Mr. Mayor with 100% Federal money
Start building a streetcar system with 100% local money.

OCKLAWAHA