Everyone Is Knocking at JTA. But No One is Home.

[JeffreyS]

Tufsu you are a very informed poster but trying to spin that the JTA as well as other coj departments can't find a few warm bodies no matter what is going on in town for a rail workshop like this is a depressing joke. I think the rule of thumb is if it is over 7 billion dollars you go.

[Coolyfett]

Interesting. Very interesting article. Although I am not too familiar with what Reality Check is, I find it strange That jax/JTA didn't send anyone to anyone of the meeting, If it was me I would think to send some reps to all off the meetings including Seattle. This saddens me, and proves the point that Jacksonville as a whole is happy the way Jacksonville is. Content. This site is not even interested in what is going on. The "i hate Moon River Pizza' topic got more hits then this. Just shows were the citizens priorities are. The only reason I bring that up is because this topic is way more important, yet the same names are replying to it, which means that everyone else lacks an interest.

Stephan Dare, don't you have some buddies that work for Folio? Maybe you can hit them up, I wouldn't expect anything from TU.

The people on the board of directors or whatever they are....why would those individuals care about Amtrak?? With the type of gigs they have I would think they would support JIA before locate Amtrak help. I will agree with Stephan though, the lawyer chick is a MILF! None seem to be urban planners or civic engineers.

Then the lie about showing people around Jacksonville to create TODs??? I mean that sounds like a "meant for MJ.com response" when I read that I though "well how convienant" JTA/Jax reps miss an important meeting involving FED money, Amtrak & etc, but when someone affiliated with MJ.com calls to investigate the response is "Well they were showing people around to create TODs" Thats so suspect.

STJR....I agree with you buy the time things get approved they wont get built til 2020, 2025 or 2050, not because of cost, but because of this lack of a go getter attitude that Jax leadership has.

This story will get pushed under the rug and forgotten about unless the people do something.

[WeeklyJoe]

Wow. As an out-of-towner, I get the feeling nobody wants me to come to Jacksonville anymore. You folks would have a better chance than I could to ask Ava L. Parker, Michael Cavendish, Donald P. Hinson, Edward E. Burr, Cleve E. Warren, A. J. Johns, and Charles W. Baldwin what meetings they missed, and what they can do to at least make Jacksonville more accessible to me. If they don't see things that way for their own kind, why are they on the list to begin with?  It seems they don't give a flying you-know-what about the JTA, locals, or travelers!

[thelakelander]

Btw, here is an interesting chart on that site.  When you look at the amount of years it takes to typically get federal related projects done, it makes taking advantage of the stimulus more critical.

Wow, Lake.  That chart says it all and backs up my previous estimate of 10 years or more for any dreams of MJ mass transit to come to fruition.  If you apply this chart, as well, to Streetcars, Trolleys, Amtrak, HSR, or even the $ky-high-way expansion some here dream about, and mix in our late local start, it will be 2020 before we even BEGIN construction on anything beyond what currently exists!  Figure another 3 to 5 or more years to build out a project, and we are talking 2025.

This is a great example of why trying to have Jax focus on one more modes of mass transit will just paralyze our community and add more years of delays just debating the solutions.  Dump the $ky-high-way and go full speed ahead on suburban rail mass transit and/or streetcars.

As we've been saying for years now, it doesn't have to be this way.  We can get started without gong through the typical federal process and begin to enjoy the benefits in 2-3 years as opposed to +10.

1. Take advantage of Amtrak stimulus dollars to ramp up their service. They are already running, the money is there and it won't take 10 years to implement if public support is shown. They may be intercity, but they'll have to upgrade the same lines we are considering for commuter rail, which will reduce our commuter rail implementation costs.  In the meantime, the system could serve as a limited commuting operation between places like Orange Park & St. Augustine and Downtown.  THIS IS WHY IT WAS IMPORTANT TO BE AT THAT MEETING IN ORLANDO.

2. Publicly fight to use the remaining $100 million for rapid transit, in BJP funds to implement a starter rail corridor (streetcar or commuter rail).  If you use local funds, you don't have to abide by this slow federal process.  If we don't, the Mayor will raid the pot and we'll really be screwed.

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-06-02/story/jacksonville_city_council_skeptical_of_peyton’s_borrow-to-build_roads_pl

Need proof on working to build something quick?  Check out Detroit of all places.  A collection of companies are ponying up money to fund a starter modern streetcar system on their own.

Detroit light rail moves forward
Mark Hicks / The Detroit News



Detroit -- Leaders of a $125 million light rail project said Thursday they have reached an agreement to collaborate with the city on a three-mile plan to link city riders in a local transit system.

The privately funded M-1 Rail, an approximately 3.4 mile, 12-stop route from Hart Plaza to Grand Boulevard, would be the "first phase" of a Detroit Department of Transportation's proposed $371 million project. That plan, the Detroit Transit Options for Growth, calls for a light rail to extend from Grand to Eight Mile, said Matthew Cullen, M-1 project president and CEO.

"We were always going to make sure we were compatible," he said of the transit plans. "We're totally motivated to be linked up with them. It is really an important step in having a real regional rapid transit system."

Norman White, formerly of DDOT, could not be reached for comment Thursday. Meagan Pitts, a city spokeswoman, said officials are continuing talks but couldn't provide details.

M-1 project leaders are still securing funding. The transit line could begin construction as early as this year and be running within two years, Cullen said. Its cars will run along both sides of Woodward.

The project so far has netted about $65 million in donations from foundations and other groups, he said. Detroit's Downtown Development Authority voted earlier this year to contribute $9 million to the project, and state lawmakers last year agreed to support operating costs.

Cullen said both M-1 Rail and the DDOT project, which the DTOG said could carry an estimated 22,200 daily riders, are expected to be part of a regional mass transportation plan linking the tricounty area to downtown.

The plan was approved in December by leaders of the city as well as Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties. John Hertel, CEO of the Detroit Regional Mass Transit group, told The Detroit News last year a cooperative governing body could be established to oversee the rail system.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090522/METRO/905220401/Detroit-light-rail-moves-forward

[tufsu1]

Tufsu you are a very informed poster but trying to spin that the JTA as well as other coj departments can't find a few warm bodies no matter what is going on in town for a rail workshop like this is a depressing joke. I think the rule of thumb is if it is over 7 billion dollars you go.

I completely agree that the City, FDOT D2, and/or JTA should have sent a few folks down to Orlando....but Stephen made it sound like they were siting on their butts doing nothing useful....and I wanted t make sure that fdolkks understood that was not the case.

Also, as noted by the folks who did attend, the FDOT Secretary was there....she represents the whole state....and incidentally is from our area!

[tufsu1]

This is why you have events like Reality Check...from the Tenessean (Nashville paper)

Mayor Karl Dean of Nashville, TN spoke yesterday about his belief that the area needs a regional transit system, and now. Said Dean, "We need to be bold, not afraid and push forward fast."

"Cities like Charlotte, Austin and Denver have something Nashville doesn't: regional mass transit. And I want it," Mayor Karl Dean told community leaders and transportation planners gathered Wednesday to talk about creating such a system in the 10-county Nashville area.

The afternoon conference looked at how transit has been developed in other places and how those experiences might translate to Nashville. It was put on by Cumberland Region Tomorrow, a nonprofit growth and planning group, and other organizations.

But Dean did have one action item. He called for leaders in Cheatham, Davidson, Dickson, Maury, Montgomery, Robertson, Rutherford, Sumner, Williamson and Wilson counties to create a work group â€" successful in other cities â€" that will formulate concrete plans for mass transit that people actually want and would use.

'This is where we find the money, design the plan and implement the plan," Dean said. "We need to be bold, not afraid and push forward fast.'"

[thelakelander]

I think we can all agree that both (Reality Check and rail stimulus workshops) are needed.  We just have to learn how to do two things at once.

[Doctor_K]

^ And not keep all of our eggs in one basket at once, as it were.

[Ocklawaha]

I'm certainly NOT the worlds great High Speed Rail (HSR) proponent, in fact I believe most of it, including the Florida plan is worthless. I do support a greatly improved Amtrak system, and would even like to see it go private through "to good to be true, government incentives, tax breaks etc..." Fat Chance. So that brings me to Amtrak, the railroad equal to "wal-mart's EQUATE brand drugs." From a national system of colorful, individual, interconnected fast trains, each as distinct as a cruise ship, to a system of "battleship gray" GI issue, sameness.
It's all we have left and we need to rapidly get on it, expand it, and use it.

I'll be damned if I want to drive to Frickin' Callahan to catch a train so get that station back in town!

I happen to believe 2 daily trains (2 north - 2 south) for the fourth largest state in population is a sham. As we move into the 3Rd largest populated State, one has to ask, how many trains have California and New York?

Anyone feeling our Skyway, Streetcar, BRT or Commuter Rail Plans are mutually exclusive, hasn't a clue how REAL transit operates. Stand in front of your bathroom mirror tonight and repeat after me, "Cross Platform Seamless Transfer...", "Cross Platform Seamless Transfer...", "Cross Platform Seamless Transfer..."

What's in my dream box? How about meter free curbsides downtown? Transit funding from our parking? Full employment for our parking division? Streetcars and electric buses in the core? BRT feeding Skyway and Rail?
Rail feeding Skyway and BRT? Skyway feeding Rail and BRT? Max out Cross Platform Seamless Transit = no more Rosa Parks / Kings Avenue type interchanges?

That's enough for now, but I agree with TUFSU1, and a number of others that JTA is not out of the picture by their own doing. In fact they are more IN IT then many realize...

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

TUFSU.  Wasnt your pro sprawl MPO group one of the sponsors of the Reality Check? 

Secondly, Im not sure why you would be so bold as to call the actual individuals from the JTA liars.

This is a fairly offensive claim, and Im sure that you would be glad of the opportunity to clear up the impression that you are claiming that the individuals involved simply lied about what they were doing.

Ok...

#1...yes the MPO was a sponsor, but they are by no means MINE

#2...I am not calling anyone at JTA a liar....perhaps you misunderstood them....or maybe you spoke to them the day AFTER Reality Check when they were showing the TOD expert around town

#3....feel free to continue over-dramatizing things....but, as I'm sure you understand, that often hurts one's credibility and eventually people just tune you out.

[tufsu1]

dude...READ THE POST....fsujax said that James Boyle and Scot Clem were meeting with Marilee Utter (the speaker from Reality Check yesterday)....that didn't mean they met with her yesterday...it meant they were meeting with her the day AFTER Reality Check!

I can assure you that this tour was on Friday...because I was invited to go too, but had another engagement!

and you know darn well I'm not part of the MPO....consultants have clients!

[tufsu1]

ok....well then how about you call James Boyle or Scott Clem yourself and ask them?

[tufsu1]

so if JTA and Marilee Utter were both at Reality Check on 5/21, how could they also be touring some TOD projects.

You do realize that fsujax wrote his note at 5:53pm on Friday 5/22....so it is entirely poissible that you are confusing the days.

Again, I suggest you verify your assertions by contacting James or Scott again

[thelakelander]

If Paul Crawford was a part of this tour, then it must have been on Friday.  Paul was behind me at the Mayor's press conference that Thursday.  Between this and Reality Check (which was at World Golf Village?), there would not have been much time for a TOD tour in a spread out city like Jax on the same day.

[fsujax]

Good God.....the tour with Marilee was on Friday May 22, 2009.....Reality Check was on Thursday May 21, 2009. Maybe someone just misspoke or mistyped.  Either way both days were full.