Everyone Is Knocking at JTA. But No One is Home.

[Ocklawaha]

Lakelander, let me get this straight. They are holding a passenger rail workshop in Philadelphia, the center of the Northeast Corridor. The most heavily traveled passenger rail corridor in the country and Shirley they won't be discussing Jacksonville. Are you serious???

Yes we are serious, (and don't call me Shirley). The same Northeast Corridor AMTRAK has announced will be expanded to J A C K S O N V I L L E !

Ocklawaha

Our stellar performance in government, lobbying and transportation in general makes us sound more like the "Port of Alexandria LA, on the Red River, then a budding World Class city.

Hey guys, does ANYONE in transportation even know if we have a single bus route with better then 20 minute headways anywhere except for the PCT's?

We'll keep fooling around and Amtrak, the DOT and FTA will build a new Terminal, maybe even larger then our own, somewhere in the Orlando/Sanford area. That will effectively push us into "flag stop" status.

I know at least 3-4 people at JTA that would LOVE to push this, but the chain of command forbids them from approaching the top management. Imagine, SUNSHINE, and our own decent experts can't go to the top and talk.

No offense to Alexandria, damn, y'all may rocket past us since we're in reverse in all things mobile.

OCKLAWAHA

[BridgeTroll]

Dont forget Bingo...

[Steve]

Them not showing up a a major passenger rail conference is a huge blow to my confidence personally that they ever care about this.  Amtrak was at this event ready to print money, and we said that's okay, we don't want it.

WTF?  Especially since going to the event had no bearing on whether or not we actually took the money.  It is appalling to me that NOT ONE person from Jacksonville showed up at this, save for Ock and Stephen Dare.

[heights unknown]

the timing was weird, Ill tell ya, BT.

Dr. K.   I cant get over the fact that one of the board members is LandMar.  Thats kind of letting the fox in with the hens isnt it?

The Chairwoman, while hot, is an attorney, but I wonder if she has experience in transit law.

How do you know she's hot?  Looks can be deceiving.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see anyone well versed or experienced with a solid background in any type of transportation type field or urban planning.  I think this might be part of the problem regarding why things don't get done the way they should within JTA.

Heights Unknown

[Tripoli1711]

That's the point.. there needs to be SOMEONE on the board with real urban planning credentials.  The entire board is not going to be urban planners or transportation experts, and that is fine.  The major job of the board is more business than it is implementation.  Therefore it is no problem if the board consists primarily of businesspeople, lawyers, etc. Nevertheless, the ultimate responsibility of having a vision and putting the vision in the hands of the right people falls upon the board, and there needs to be somebody there who has the capacity to develop that vision.  Right now JTA might see clear as day how to manage the business of public transportation but they lack even eyes in the sockets to see how to implement a transportation system that becomes a civic asset.  Get some urban planners on the board to articulate a vision... if they stink then we can at least call them blind.  Right now, even calling them blind gives them too much credit.

[zoo]

May be time to start picketing the Council meetings and Transportation sub-committee meetings with signage addressed to Amtrak (might as well skip the JTA, as even if they aren't skipping what the populace wants, the COJ is skipping them).

May get some media coverage from local stations and papers (if COJ doesn't collar it), and at least Hemming Plaza would be used for something other than a vagrant day-camp for a change.

Anyone got a contact a Amtrak that supportive citizens can email indicating our desire for rail, despite our municipality's apparent position?

"Mealy-mouthed"... love it.

[tufsu1]

the timing was weird, Ill tell ya, BT.

Dr. K.   I cant get over the fact that one of the board members is LandMar.  Thats kind of letting the fox in with the hens isnt it?

The Chairwoman, while hot, is an attorney, but I wonder if she has experience in transit law.

How do you know she's hot?  Looks can be deceiving.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see anyone well versed or experienced with a solid background in any type of transportation type field or urban planning.  I think this might be part of the problem regarding why things don't get done the way they should within JTA.

Heights Unknown

ok...time for me to defend JTA....there are at least 3 urban planners on their staff (all with planning degrees).....the planning staff does believe in rail, but sometimes you have to take things slowly...especially when higher-ups, board members, and/or political leaders don't share the same view.

And, as has been stated here before, there was a major regional planning event here in Jax. the same day as the Amtrak meeting....and that event included 300 regional leaders who for the first time started imagining the future urban form of our region...which in many cases included significant investements in transit.

[tufsu1]

now that I read the article, there are many errors.

Prime among them is the JTA planners escorted the TOD expert around Jax. on 5/22....as has been reported many times (and in my post above) they were at Reality Check on 5/21....as was the Mayor, the head of JEDC, and other key local and regional leaders.

And no....everyone who is a big hitter in the transportation game was not at the Amtrak meeting...in fact, most of the heavy hitters in Jacksonville and our local FDOT district were at Reality Check.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all be in two places at once?

[Charles Hunter]

A couple points - first to expand on what tufsu said, and in response to Stephen Dare's earlier comment, even if the planners he mentioned wanted to go to the Amtrak meeting - they couldn't go without approval from their bosses.  Their bosses apparently thought it was better for them to be here.

As far as I know, the Board members are volunteers - no pay; only travel expenses when they go out of town for the JTA.

added based on tufsu1's latter post - I think the 3rd paragraph is the point being made here, that all the local "heavy hitters" were at Reality Check, and not one could be spared for the Amtrak meeting.

[thelakelander]

And no....everyone who is a big hitter in the transportation game was not at the Amtrak meeting...in fact, most of the heavy hitters in Jacksonville and our local FDOT district were at Reality Check.

I think this is the major problem.  All of our big hitters were in town for Reality Check, while most of the other major metropolitan big hitters were at a workshop discussing how incoming rail federal stimulus money will be spent.

Whatever happened to multi-tasking?  The idea behind Reality Check is cool, but it does not mean much if we don't put ourselves in position to get money to help implement a few projects.  I can't vouch for the article 100%, because I was not at either event, but it would be nice if we could have spared a person or two (JTA, TPO, FDOT, Council, Mayor's Office, etc.) to represent Jacksonville and to ensure that we are an important part of the planning process.

[thelakelander]

Btw, from what I understand, Amtrak was only a part of this meeting.  The overall purpose was for it to be a workshop to help decide what would be the best way for Florida to take advantage of HSR and intercity rail stimulus dollars that could be flowing our way.  If this was the purpose, I could definitely see how having representation at meetings like this could lead to some of the concepts discussed at Reality Check and the various vision studies becoming reality....sooner rather than later.

[Steve]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all be in two places at once?

So, there were seven of the rail meetings: Charlotte, Orlando, Seattle, Sacramento, Houston, Chicago, and Philadelphia.  I find it hard to believe that the JTA was busy all of these dates.  While it wouldn't have been focused on Florida, it would have been better than not going to any of them. 

Plus, I do find it hard to believe that NOT ONE person could represent JTA, and instead, had to participate in a planning exercise, that based on previous plans, will not lead to any change in how we plan in this city.  Apparently we're supposed to trust that Daniel Davis and his homebuilders will put aside profit in favor of a Lego Board.  Personally, considering that the Feds are looking to hand out $$$ (and believe me, this is not going to be around forever), I would have sent at least one person down to stick their hand out.

Finally, you mentioned that the JTA has three planners on staff.  If I were employed as a planner, I would be ashamed to admit that.

[thelakelander]

To be fair, tufsu1 said he knew of at least three planners (with planning degrees) on JTA's staff.  Lets just hope that they have a few more than that.

Regarding the rail meetings, since Jax is a part of the Southeast HSR corridor, the Charlotte meeting would have been just as important as the Orlando meeting. 



link: http://www.sehsr.org/

[thelakelander]

Btw, here is an interesting chart on that site.  When you look at the amount of years it takes to typically get federal related projects done, it makes taking advantage of the stimulus more critical.

[stjr]

Btw, here is an interesting chart on that site.  When you look at the amount of years it takes to typically get federal related projects done, it makes taking advantage of the stimulus more critical.

Wow, Lake.  That chart says it all and backs up my previous estimate of 10 years or more for any dreams of MJ mass transit to come to fruition.  If you apply this chart, as well, to Streetcars, Trolleys, Amtrak, HSR, or even the $ky-high-way expansion some here dream about, and mix in our late local start, it will be 2020 before we even BEGIN construction on anything beyond what currently exists!  Figure another 3 to 5 or more years to build out a project, and we are talking 2025.

This is a great example of why trying to have Jax focus on one more modes of mass transit will just paralyze our community and add more years of delays just debating the solutions.  Dump the $ky-high-way and go full speed ahead on suburban rail mass transit and/or streetcars.