Orlando rail project derailed, but Jacksonville moves ahead

[thelakelander]

SunRail problems could stymie Jacksonville's project, but JTA moves ahead with plan.

By Larry Hannan Story updated at 4:46 AM on Sunday, May. 17, 2009

There is only one commuter rail line now operating in Florida: Tri-Rail from Miami to West Palm Beach.

A few weeks ago, it seemed as if Orlando would soon have the second. But that was before the Florida Legislature refused to pay for it.

Now the death of SunRail could be problematic in efforts to establish a rail system in Jacksonville. Some of the same issues that doomed Orlando could pop up here.

"SunRail impacts the entire state," said U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla. "It's hard to imagine getting anything else going forward if SunRail dies."

Nonetheless, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority is moving ahead. It has hired consultant Gannett Fleming to conduct a study of a commuter rail system from downtown Jacksonville as far north as Yulee and as far south as Green Cove Springs and St. Augustine.

And JTA's spokesman, Mike Miller, said the problems of SunRail do not doom commuter rail locally.

"The setback on SunRail is not going to slow us down," Miller said. "We wish them well, but we are not dependent on them."

With SunRail, the Legislature was being asked to approve the sale of 61 miles of CSX track to the state for $1.2 billion. The state also had to approve a waiver of legal liability so CSX could not be sued for an accident on the commuter rail lines.

The Florida Senate rejected the deal, 23-17. Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland, was the most vocal opponent arguing that the liability waiver was bad for Florida. Dockery also argued that Lakeland would see an increase in freight train traffic because CSX was planning to reroute it to a planned intermodal rail yard in nearby Winter Haven.

The waiver of liability that CSX demanded for SunRail will also be required for any commuter rail system in Jacksonville that uses CSX tracks, company spokesman Gary Sease said. Upgrades would have to be made to allow freight to continue operating on the tracks with the commuter rail lines, Sease said.

James Boyle, JTA regional transportation planner, said the organization has had discussions with the rail companies and understands that a waiver of liability will be necessary as part of any commuter rail agreement. The study is expected to conclude this summer, Boyle said.

Jacksonvilleresident Ennis Davis, one of the three men behind MetroJacksonville.com, a Web site that supports using rail in Jacksonville, said the city could get rail before Orlando.

Smaller cities like Little Rock, Ark.; Nashville, Tenn.; Austin, Texas; Memphis, Tenn.; and Salt Lake City built rail systems with either local or federal money. All of those cities are smaller than Orlando, Davis said.

It is not yet clear how JTA would pay for commuter rail; that's also part of the study.

Miller it would be presented to the JTA board in August. Presentations are also likely to be made to the City Council and other interested groups.

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-05-17/story/orlando_rail_project_derailed_but_jacksonville_moves_ahead

[thelakelander]

My advice is to shoot for improved Amtrak service first.  Both the establishment of better long distance service and statewide corridor service.  It will be easier, cheaper and quicker to get off the ground.  Plus, it will reduce the capital cost of local commuter rail.

Also, don't stay so focused on any one type of transportation system, funding solution or transit corridor.  For example, a rapid streetcar corridor could be established without the state, feds or CSX approval.  They say Rome was not built in a day.  Neither will an integrated mass transit system.  Lets get that mass transit master plan together and start attacking the implementation issues, corridor by corridor.

[JeffreyS]

I love a little coverage and positive quotes on this issue.

[Charles Hunter]

One question has been nagging at me for a long time.  With all the talk about using Amtrak for commuter rail service - how does that square with Amtrak's infamously poor on-time performance?  If I'm commuting from Nocatee (at 210) to the new station at Union Terminal, and my train doesn't arrive by 8 on a regular basis, I won't be employed very long.  Does Amtrak do better with on-time performance where it is doing commuter rail service?  And if so, are those dedicated Amtrak-CR runs, or just allowing CR passengers on an existing Amtrak longer haul (as I think is being suggested here)?

[thelakelander]

There is a huge difference between what we currently have serving us and a corridor service (which is not traditional commuter rail).  A corridor service eliminates that problem because track capacity is increased to make room for more frequent service between the State's cities.  The best examples of this exist in California.  There, trains come every hour or so between San Diego and LA and Sacramento and Oakland.  The benefit of a reliable statewide intercity service to Jax would mean frequent trains going through our rapidly growing suburbs to access the Jax transportation center and rail lines running north and west to other states.  This means a commuter living in Orange Park can hop on a daily train coming from Orlando to get downtown instead of driving down Blanding or Roosevelt.  The same would go for someone on the Southside or St. Johns County.  They would have the option to hop on a Miami-Jax train to bypass future construction and gridlock on I-95's Overland Bridge and JTB interchange projects.

Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner has trains coming into stations on an hourly basis.  Imagine the benefit of such a statewide service running on a triangular route between Jax, Orlando, Tampa and Miami.



Amtrak's Capitol Corridor service also has dependable service times. 



Little California towns between the major cities have been able to successfully establish TODs around their Amtrak stations.  The example is there, we just have to incorporate the things that make those systems a success.  What you see in Emeryville could easily be Orange Park, Green Cove Springs, Avenues or St. Augustine with corridor service.

[Charles Hunter]

Thanks, I knew I must have been missing something, thanks for filling in the blanks.

[FayeforCure]

My advice is to shoot for improved Amtrak service first.  Both the establishment of better long distance service and statewide corridor service.  It will be easier, cheaper and quicker to get off the ground.  Plus, it will reduce the capital cost of local commuter rail.

Also, don't stay so focused on any one type of transportation system, funding solution or transit corridor.  For example, a rapid streetcar corridor could be established without the state, feds or CSX approval.  They say Rome was not built in a day.  Neither will an integrated mass transit system.  Lets get that mass transit master plan together and start attacking the implementation issues, corridor by corridor.

This is something I fully back. Working with Amtrak will be far easier.

[mtraininjax]

My advice is to shoot for improved Amtrak service first.  Both the establishment of better long distance service and statewide corridor service.  It will be easier, cheaper and quicker to get off the ground.  Plus, it will reduce the capital cost of local commuter rail.

Also, don't stay so focused on any one type of transportation system, funding solution or transit corridor.  For example, a rapid streetcar corridor could be established without the state, feds or CSX approval.  They say Rome was not built in a day.  Neither will an integrated mass transit system.  Lets get that mass transit master plan together and start attacking the implementation issues, corridor by corridor.

Good ideas. YEAH!