Red Alert! Governor, Legislature Continue Destruction of State Education System

[Springfield Girl]

There is another scenario that no one has brought up. I pushed my kids to do well in school so they could get the bright futures scholarship and save me some money. They did so well that two of the three recieved scholarships to attend private universities out of state and didn't need the state money.

[Springfield Girl]

Grade inflation so the teacher's pets can get a free education?  Never! 

This wouldn't matter as the students have to get high SAT or ACT scores also. You might get all A's but you won't get the scholarship without the high test scores. I believe most kids getting Bright Futures only qualify for the 75% tuition reward.

[stjr]

What kind of education do you expect to get for "free"?  Less and less of one in Florida:

Tallahassee Democrat Newspaper:

Brains drained

Legislators show scorn for universities

The antipathy that House Republicans show toward Florida's state universities is breathtaking.

Their plan quite simply forces our public universities to undermine even star-studded and economy-enriching programs ranging from oceanography â€" important in a state surrounded on three sides by water â€" to hospitality management â€" notice we're a major tourism state.

As the machinations in budget-writing continued this week, it appears that even the Senate â€" which has shown the most fiscal maturity and farsightedness to date â€" stands ready to bow to House leaders and their eye-on-the-next-election starvation diet.

Many members may be smart and quick with the glib remark, but as a group, House leadership is showing itself to be not deeply thoughtful â€" as one despairing observer put it, "not deeply rooted in ideas."

Board of Governors Chairman Sheila McDevitt said Thursday that she's pleased to see the Legislature approved tuition flexibility for the universities, but adds "tuition helps, but it will be four years before you see much effect."

Likewise, federal stimulus dollars, perhaps $150 million systemwide that is expected to come Florida's way, lasts just two years. And that isn't anywhere near up to the task of stopping the hemorrhaging of professors and, accordingly, the academic reputation that draws both students and research grant money that's so vital.

Given that Florida continues to have not only an expensive and easygoing Bright Futures program but also the lowest tuition rates in the nation, even slowly bringing tuition up to a national average won't begin to fund this economic engine called higher education.

"We're appreciative of the stimulus money," Ms. McDevitt added, "but you still have to look toward a predictable source of revenue, and that's General Revenue." Right now the House sets GR at 26.4 percent less than it was last year â€" and that's on top of reductions the previous two years.

By comparison, the Senate's 8.6-percent cut in GR over last year seems almost benign. And yet Senate President Jeff Atwater on Wednesday was cozying up to the House Speaker Larry Cretul, giving every indication the Senate was ready to kick universities under the bus.

Presidents of the state's universities stood as one on Thursday, expressing their frantic dismay over what's happening to their budgets. Florida A&M University at last got the memo that it is also in grave trouble if an expected $22 million is slashed from its budget. Florida State and the University of Florida have, on the other hand, been thundering through the halls of the Capitol for weeks, trying to get the attention of the mighty. But so far, to little avail.

As one distinguished professor said, "The future of the state is in energetic young people with ideas. They're the basic building blocks of the future, but they aren't going to stick around Florida; they're going to go."

One has to wonder where the majority of Florida legislators got their education. The majority must have found economics, history and logic way over their heads â€" while doing very well indeed in theater of the absurd.

http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20090424/OPINION05/904240318/1006/OPINION

[urbanlibertarian]

What if students from out of state (and foreign as well) paid the full unsubsidized cost of the education they get at our state colleges and universities?  Students from several states can go to college cheaper here paying the out of state tuition than they can paying in-state tuition in their home state.

[stjr]

What if students from out of state (and foreign as well) paid the full unsubsidized cost of the education they get at our state colleges and universities?  Students from several states can go to college cheaper here paying the out of state tuition than they can paying in-state tuition in their home state.

That likely already happens as much as will be tolerated already.  Politically, they can only allocate so many spaces for out of staters.  Florida taxpayers expect most slots to be reserved for their sons and daughters, especially since the cutbacks have resulted in massive refusals of applicants that likely would have had a spot in better times.  Also, keep in mind that even full tuition never pays the full costs of education at a college.  It is always subsidized by annual giving, state funding, research grant income, endowment income, ancillary income, etc.  So, we really aren't "making money" when we admit full paying students from out of state (or in-state) unless they are replacing spots taken by scholarship students.  I don't see that happening too much more than the status quo for the reasons stated.

[tufsu1]

out-of-state students already pay the "full" cost...that's why their tution is almost 3 times the cost that in-state students pay!

[urbanlibertarian]

As illustrated in stjr's post above, full tuition is not the full unsubsidized cost.  It is also often less than they would pay if they went to a state school in their home state.  Florida taxpayers should not be helping out of state students take spots in our higher ed system that Florida students want.

[stjr]

out-of-state students already pay the "full" cost...that's why their tution is almost 3 times the cost that in-state students pay!

Tufsu, just because out of staters pay multiple times in-state doesn't mean they pay full tuition.  The only reason there is such a large gap is because in-staters pay ridiculously low tuition to begin with - considered by many to be among the lowest in the country for state higher education.  Another reason our universities are in big financial trouble.  And, the governor and legislature are holding them back here as well.  It's financial suicide!

Florida taxpayers should not be helping out of state students take spots in our higher ed system that Florida students want.

Urban, the reason Florida universities will always covet some out of staters (and international students) is because it "enriches" their student body experience to have some geographic and ethnic diversity and because it gives them prestige and cachet as "national"/"international" institutions.  If we want more Florida students admitted, we have to give the universities and community colleges a much stronger financial framework to work with.  That's the point I am trying to make with this thread.

Don't forget, the feeders to our universities are our primary and secondary schools.  They are suffering at least as much as the universities and community colleges.

[Ocklawaha]

We don't need it, the damn system doesn't make a profit. Until they can find a way to make these schools profitable we should close them down, lay off the teachers, and scrap the buildings.

Then we can work on getting rid of the City Parks, Police, Fire, Library etc... We'll keep NOTHING that doesn't make a buck. $5.00 a mile tolls on the roads to, you use it, you pay.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

We don't need it, the damn system doesn't make a profit. Until they can find a way to make these schools profitable we should close them down, lay off the teachers, and scrap the buildings.

Then we can work on getting rid of the City Parks, Police, Fire, Library etc... We'll keep NOTHING that doesn't make a buck. $5.00 a mile tolls on the roads to, you use it, you pay.

OCKLAWAHA

Or, looked at another way, using a merit based system only, we should all get free food (we all deserve to eat), free housing (everyone needs a place to live), free cars (isn't it in our constitution that everyone is entitled to a car!), free health care (we all are entitled to plastic surgery to make ourselves even better looking), and free vacations (what fun is life without a few of these).  Why should only the financially disadvantaged get assistance - with our new merit system, let's give these things to all desrving souls.  Don't worry if it bankrupts the State - Charlie Crist will just wish it away!  What a wonderful world we live in!   

[tufsu1]

As illustrated in stjr's post above, full tuition is not the full unsubsidized cost.  It is also often less than they would pay if they went to a state school in their home state.  Florida taxpayers should not be helping out of state students take spots in our higher ed system that Florida students want.

that's why I used "full"...nonetheless, I completely disagree...I happen to be one of those out-of-state folks who came here for grad. school....and have stayed for 13 years since.

Often, bringing in outstanding students from out-of-state actually earns a school (and the state) more revenue than in-state students would (think dorms for example)....and clearly they add to a diverse well-rounded student body!

[Deuce]

The Bright Futures program is terrific...the program has resulted in higher GPAs among Florida students....which mean the standards should be adjusted.....right now the program is almost too easy

Now that seems like a simple change to reduce program cost and push our students to strive ever higher, after all if you're going to get a free ride to college it ought not to be easy.