Waterboarded 183 Times in One Month. Torture Issue Blows Up.

[stephendare]

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-was-waterboarded-183-times-in-one-month/

I've put this detail in a series of posts, but it really deserves a full post. According to the May 30, 2005 Bradbury memo, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in March 2003 and Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in August 2002.

On page 37 of the OLC memo, in a passage discussing the differences between SERE techniques and the torture used with detainees, the memo explains:

    The CIA used the waterboard "at least 83 times during August 2002" in the interrogation of Zubaydah. IG Report at 90, and 183 times during March 2003 in the interrogation of KSM, see id. at 91.

Note, the information comes from the CIA IG report which, in the case of Abu Zubaydah, is based on having viewed the torture tapes as well as other materials. So this is presumably a number that was once backed up by video evidence.

The same OLC memo passage explains how the CIA might manage to waterboard these men so many times in one month each (though even with these chilling numbers, the CIA's math doesn't add up).

    ...where authorized, it may be used for two "sessions" per day of up to two hours. During a session, water may be applied up to six times for ten seconds or longer (but never more than 40 seconds). In a 24-hour period, a detainee may be subjected to up to twelve minutes of water appliaction. See id. at 42.  Additionally, the waterboard may be used on as many as five days during a 30-day approval period.

So: two two-hour sessions a day, with six applications of the waterboard each = 12 applications in a day. Though to get up to the permitted 12 minutes of waterboarding in a day (with each use of the waterboard limited to 40 seconds), you'd need 18 applications in a day.  Assuming you use the larger 18 applications in one 24-hour period, and do 18 applications on five days within a month, you've waterboarded 90 times--still just half of what they did to KSM.

The CIA wants you to believe waterboarding is effective. Yet somehow, it took them 183 applications of the waterboard in a one month period to get what they claimed was cooperation out of KSM.

That doesn't sound very effective to me.

Sign the petition telling Attorney General Eric Holder to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate torture here.

Update: Here's one reason to demand a special prosecutor to investigate these actions. In addition to revealing the sheer number of times KSM and Abu Zubaydah were waterboarded, the memos reveal that the interrogators who waterboarded these men went far beyond even the expansive  guidelines for torture described in the Bybee Memo, notably by dumping water onto their nose and mouth, rather than dribbing it on.

    The IG Report noted that in some cases the waterboard was used with far greater frequency than initially indicated, see IG Report at 5, 44, 46, 103-04, and also that it was used in a different manner. See id. at 37 ("[T]he waterboard technique  ... was different from the technique described in the DoJ opinion and used in the SERE training. The difference was the manner in which the detainee's breathing was obstructed. At the SERE school and in the DoJ opinion, the subject's airflow is disrupted by the firm application of a damp cloth over the air passages; the interrogator applies a small amount of water to the cloth in a controlled manner. By contrast, the Agency Interrogator ...  applied large volumes of water to a cloth that covered the detainee's mouth and nose. One of the psychologists/interrogators acknowledged that the Agency's use of the technique is different from that used in SERE training because it is "for real--and is more poignant and convincing.") [my emphasis]

There's been a lot of discussion about whether those who did what the OLC memos authorized should be prosecuted. But in the case of those who waterboarded KSM and Abu Zubaydah, that's irrelevant, because they did things the OLC memos didn't authorize.

[jaxnative]

Pres. Obambam did the right thing when he doused the vigor of the attack dogs in destroying the lives and careers of CIA personnel who were protecting American lives.  I think the only "agonizing" he did, mentioned in the article below, was how to partially appease his rabid base for that decision.  His next decision was a wonderful gift and victory to our jihadist friends.

Inexcusable Lapse
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, April 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT

War On Terror: Imagine a president of the United States, within his first hundred days, revealing secrets that help terrorists kill. The secret memos on enhanced interrogation, now made public, do exactly that.

We are told by President Obama's senior adviser David Axelrod that the president agonized for four weeks over the "weighty decision" to make public memoranda detailing the specifics of the CIA's tough interrogation of high-value terrorist detainees such as 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad.

For most other presidents, it would have taken maybe four minutes, required little soul-searching and resulted in the opposite choice.

What on earth could the president have been thinking in revealing the nuts and bolts of how we extract information from al-Qaida operatives to prevent the success of their terrorist operations?

What could have possessed him to make public the steps our interrogators go through, the limits of pain and discomfort they (but not the prisoners) know they will not exceed, and the analytical classification and specific purpose of each of the various techniques?

These top secrets will arm Islamist jihadists with knowledge that will be invaluable to them. Future terrorist detainees will now know, for instance, that their interrogations are under continual video surveillance to make sure no lasting medical or psychological consequences result from the techniques used. Will they now teach themselves to fake such ill effects?

Terrorists will know that when they are placed in a tiny container in "cramped confinement" it will last only "up to two hours," as a declassified memo from the Justice Department to the CIA noted. They will know that "stress positions" are used "only to induce temporary muscle fatigue" not "severe physical pain."

They will now know that when subjected to "water dousing" they need not have the slightest fear of hypothermia, because every precaution is taken to keep the temperature of both the room and the water itself far above freezing.

They will know sleep deprivation inflicted by the interrogators seldom exceeds 96 hours, and they'll know the specifics and purposes behind the relatively mild technique of "dietary manipulation."

What the president has given to our enemies is a treasure chest of defensive weapons. Within the caves of the mountainous Pakistan/Afghanistan border, Islamofascist plotters must wonder how self-destructively corrupt their American adversaries have to be to allow such materials to land in their hands.

The piece of information that may be of most value to terrorists is the government's assessment that waterboarding was "the most traumatic of the enhanced interrogation techniques" and implicitly the most effective.

Terrorist groups around the world will now know that waterboarding was "authorized for, at most, one 30-day period, during which the technique can actually be applied on no more than five days" with "no more than two sessions in any 24-hour period."

Each session lasted no more than two hours, consisting of, at most, six applications of water for 10 seconds each time, for a total of no longer than 12 minutes per each 24-hour period. Presumably the issue is academic since the Obama administration has officially prohibited waterboarding.

There is no more valuable tool for subjects of interrogation than to know what they will be subjected to. How in good conscience could our president have given this gift to those trying to destroy us?

[ChriswUfGator]

Where was that logic when we prosecuted everyone at Nuremburg? They were all just following orders too...

[jaxnative]

Don't recall any jihadi boy's being sent to gas chambers or lined up and shot in the back of the head. 

[BridgeTroll]

Still not sure what the big deal is... no one was hurt... no one was harmed... discomforted?  Yes.  Scared? I hope so.  Intimidated?  OK. Stressed? OMG.  Dietary manipulation?  Don't we all?

All this from a generation that is "tortured" sitting in a traffic jam, or feels abused by a waitress.  These four or five guys were dangerous MFers who may or may not have had information.  These stateless mercenaries are not signatories to any Geneva conventions and most assuredly do not treat their captives with such dignities.

I do not want this sort of treatment to become standard practice and I am OK with The president publicly declaring that it will stop.(it already had)  The fact that he agonized for four weeks over the decision tells me it was not as clear cut decision as some would have you believe.  I hope for his sake he is never put into a position where he may have to secretly recind his decision in a time of national crisis.

[ChriswUfGator]

Don't recall any jihadi boy's being sent to gas chambers or lined up and shot in the back of the head. 

You must not watch the news much. We've killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis of all ages, by a variety of unpleasant methods.

And that's just what we know about. I'm sure plenty more is 'classified'...

[jaxnative]

Yes, of course we have.  I think some have gotten it up into the millions.  F---king, genocidal Americans!!!

[BridgeTroll]

We've killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis of all ages, by a variety of unpleasant methods.

Your military is very well trained... and they are very good at what they do.

[BridgeTroll]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090420/pl_politico/21472

Cheney also said he found the administration’s release of memos about CIA interrogation techniques “a little bit disturbing” since the government has not also release documents he claims would show “the success of the effort.”

Cheney said he has “formally asked” for the declassification of documents he says would “lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.”

Here are excerpts released by Fox News Channel’s “Hannity”:


On his thoughts regarding the CIA memos that were recently declassified and his request to the CIA to declassify additional memos that confirm the success of the Bush administration’s interrogation tactics: “One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn't put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified.”

“I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven't announced this up until now, I haven't talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.”

“And I've now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was, as well as to see this debate over the legal opinions.

[ChriswUfGator]

Your military is very well trained... and they are very good at what they do.

No doubt. But it's our politicians that could use some improvement...

[Sigma]

I hope for his sake he is never put into a position where he may have to secretly recind his decision in a time of national crisis.

I've thought about this before too.  I think this will most likely happen, and the decision he makes will be huge.

[BridgeTroll]

Obama has said the opposite... but I suppose someone in congress will try for some notoriety.

[BridgeTroll]

No doubt...

[Sigma]

It's a good thing that you will never be in a position to make that call. As a former soldier, I would say that if it was my job to interrogate terrorists, I would do what I needed to do legally to extract information that could save us from further attacks.  That doesn't make me or any of them (the interrogators) monsters, Stephen.  It makes them soldiers - sworn to defend this country.  

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=325121124043870

Enhanced Protection
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, April 20, 2009 4:20 PM PT

National Security: The establishment media are obsessed with the newly revealed details of our enhanced terrorist interrogation techniques. Their most important detail is the many American lives they saved.

There's nothing like a big number in a top-of-the-fold headline to sell newspapers â€" and seal misconceptions. The supposedly big news of the weekend regarding disclosure of declassified memos specifying the methods used by the CIA to question captured terrorists was that 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his fellow al-Qaida operative Abu Zubaydah were waterboarded a combined 266 times.

That number certainly is big if you think about what most media and leading Democrats have been telling us about use of the water board. They claim it constitutes torture, that no one can resist such a pseudo-medieval practice for more than a few seconds â€" yet at the same time it doesn't really work.

But the number itself refutes those accusations. If KSM was forced to undergo such a drowning sensation 183 times in the course of one month about a year after the 2001 attacks, and Zubaydah 83 times in the course of a month the summer before KSM's sessions, it suggests the interrogators were getting places.

The released paper makes that clear. The May 30, 2005, memo from the Justice Department to the CIA, for instance, noted that "no technique is used on a detainee unless use of that technique at that time appears necessary to obtaining the intelligence."

Khalid and Zubaydah were two of only three detainees on whom waterboarding, "the most traumatic of the enhanced interrogation techniques," was used. Yet the number of sessions employed makes it clear that as harsh as the method is, it clearly can be resisted, especially if a terrorist has been conditioned to do so. Otherwise, so many repeated sessions would be unnecessary.

As the guidelines of the CIA's Office of Medical Services stated, "The general goal of these techniques is a psychological impact, and not some physical effect." The OMS described the "specific goal" as being to "dislocate" the terrorist's "expectations regarding the treatment he believes he will receive."

Unfortunately, by making the details public and thus available for al-Qaida and other terrorist groups to study, that "dislocation of expectations" becomes impossible for future terrorist detainees.

This is an incalculable blow to U.S. national security.

As former CIA Director Michael Hayden and former Attorney General Michael Mukasey pointed out last week, half of the U.S. government's knowledge of al-Qaida's structure and activities is the fruit of enhanced interrogation.

That information let the U.S. and other governments foil numerous 9/11-style operations, saving hundreds if not thousands of innocent lives.

We understand that people have legitimate concerns about the U.S. being involved in torture. But enhanced interrogation â€" a reasonable (but now rescinded) response to the deadliest of threats to our homeland â€" should be seen for what it is: a tough, but effective, way to save lives.

And those devoted U.S. government personnel who took part, who saved so many, deserve medals.

[BridgeTroll]

I still have not seen any indication of torture.  Waterboarding does not really fill the bill.  Descriptions of it being an attempt to nearly drown the person is faulty.  It is designed to give the person the perception that he may drown.  I realize this IS torture to someone who would be against a mild scolding... or horrified by a slow internet connection.  Harsh? yes... torture? I dont think so.

Most of the newspapers are rotating between "harsh interrogation" and "torture".

Why are they not releasing the results of these interrogations?