The war we can't seem to end

[thelakelander]

A city’s roots are still planted in a bitter divide, though the fighting ended nearly 150 years ago.



It’s the controversy that will never fade away.

Nearly 150 years after the Civil War began, Confederate history and its symbols have touched off one political firestorm after another â€" and that’s just here in Duval County. In the past year.

History has lots of muddy, gray areas. But debates over it have never seemed more sharply divided than they are today.

The rhetoric that flew over the name of Nathan B. Forrest High School was intense and sometimes bitter on both sides. When debate erupted over an African-American city councilwoman’s embrace of Confederate Memorial Day and about a man kept from an employee parking lot because of a Confederate flag on his truck, the discourse was at times vitriolic.

Even something as simple as a proposed license plate to acknowledge Confederate heritage led in January to a lawsuit that is making some legislators cower. But a “Choose Life” plate that touches the third rail of politics, abortion, is now commonplace.

It leaves folks who are closer to the middle of the Civil War debate wondering, will it ever end? With the war’s 150th anniversary coming in 2011, the answer is, “Not anytime soon.”

full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-03-29/story/the_war_we_cant_seem_to_end

[Springfielder]

I honestly don't know what will even lead to this issue being resolved or left to the past. I think that as long as there's continued racism (and it's on both sides of the racial lines) it'll never die away. It's a shame that when someone shows any outward signs of trying to bridge that gap, most times they're raked over the coals for it.

[David]

People don't seem to realize there's multiple ways to look at the history of the confederacy, not just one. I think most southerners who feel a strong bond to that flag sincerely feel it's a symbol of their heritage, not a reminder of anything else.

But on the other hand you can't overlook the history of slavery and segregation and what that symbol projects.

I don’t fly any flags, or where any of that stuff myself, infact I spent most of my 20’s bashing it as I used to sport a “get over it, you lost” bumper sticker with a no sign on the fallen flag,  but one day I realized that there’s too many good people who sincerely feel it’s part of their history and don’t look at it as a symbol of oppression or anything negative.

I like the idea of the  old south giving the finger to the north, saying we’re going to do things our own way, but yeah that whole slavery thing really puts a damper on it. It makes it hard to defend.

However, If you go to huguenot  park on any given summer day and see the mass display of confederate flags, you won’t find any klan rallys. Just some rednecks having fun in their big ol pick em up trucks.

[thelakelander]

That's the key, right or wrong, it means different things to different groups.  I don't know if a bridge between the extremes will ever be made.  However, I think most would agree that today's society faces more important issues than arguing over a 150 year old event.  Make a nice museum, highlighting the viewpoints of multiple cultural outlooks (something I think has never been done to date), move on and call it a day.

[thelakelander]

Reading through the responses on the TU article at Jacksonville.com, one thing can be confirmed.  Our population is inhabited by some ignorant jackasses.

[BridgeTroll]

   We do have our fair share...

[comncense]

It's good to come here and see the huge contrast in the types of comments here vs. the ones on the TU site. It's nice to see that not everyone is ignorant.

[Ocklawaha]

Like I said out at the Camp Milton site Lake, both sides are to blame for the proliferation of hate:

Little African American Boy goes to school and learns, "This was a war to free your ancestors from slavery, all Southern whites fought to make slaves of your family. When the war was over they put on white sheets and took this flag to rape, pillage and lynch every black man or woman they could find. Deep down, you know they all hate you..."

Little Southern White Boy goes to the same school and learns: "This was a way to make your family rich, all Southern whites fought to capture slaves for your family. When the war was over the government stole all your family's property and gave it to uneducated black people. Some whites formed the Klan to get even because deep down, you know you hate them..."

This is 100% BULL SHIT! Yet not in so many words, that's what the schools are teaching at one level or another. Then we are horrified when a bunch of ignorant white boys want to burn crosses or fly Confederate Flags, and young angry black boys want to shoot a white kid to "Be Real".

Tell it like it was and is, the war had many reasons, roots and causes. Generally the country knew it was coming since the days of George Washington and had it happened that early, it certainly would NOT have been all about slavery.

Our Children will never hear of the Connecticut Yankee that led the 2Nd Florida CONFEDERATE Cavalry on it's wild rides around our state. They won't hear that the first money pledged to the new Confederate States was from the Charleston Colored Businessman's Association and that they were also the first organized group to Volunteer. There will be no mention of those Yankee notes in the Official Records that record Lee's army as being fully intagrated, "Marching along joking and singing with eachother like they were brothers." They won't hear of the black engineer that designed the Confederate River Ironclad Chattahoochee. They'll never read of the first Native American army General Stand Watie, who led the Confederate forces in Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. All of our kids, black and white, will hear about "horse whipping" (but they won't say that flogging was a common punishment everywhere and for all races at the time), shackles, and that darn flag... They'll never sing Dixie, because to tell them it was first heard by Lincoln, and became his favorite song, as well as a favorite of "Negro Minstrels, and early Jazz artists." No that might send the wrong message.

No y'all it's not over and never will be until the truth sets us all free...  Other then that for the South, "to make victory certain, we would have to march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House.” (Yamamoto)

OCKLAWAHA
DEO VINDICE!

[Ocklawaha]

MORE IMPORTANT TO MJ READERS SHOULD BE : The Sesquicentennial, or 150Th anniversary of The War Of Yankee Aggression. Events are being planned all over the United States from "the battle" of Volcano, CA to the Confederate raid on Vermont. Jacksonville could and SHOULD jump on this as Florida's key City and with Sisters Fernandina Beach, St. Augustine, Palatka, Gainesville, Lake City, Glen St. Marys, Olustee and Baldwin, we could make some real inroads into tourist dollars.

A systems of auto trails could be devised to include the battles, forts or camps at:

Fort Clinch (occupation)
Nassau River Railroad Trestle (Federal war crimes)
Kingsley Plantation (Historic site)
Ft. Steele (Mayport)
Ft. Marion (St. Augustine, Maj General Kirby Smiths birthplace)
Tocoi (Federal Raid)
Mandarin (Uncle Toms Cabin / sinking of USS Hunter, Maple Leaf, Harriet Weed)
St. Johns Bluff (Naval battle - invasion)
Yellow Bluff (Battery's, skirmish, signal tower / sinking of USS Alice Price)
Hemming Plaza (Signal Tower)
Riverwalk (Burning of Confederate Gun Boats)
Jacksonville Landing (Burning of Jacksonville)
Broad Street at Bay (Federal Invasion force unloads 10,000 men - attacked by 6 Confederates)
Confederate Park (Skirmishes - Federal earth works)
Union Station (Federal Earth Works - Battle)
Mc Coy's Creek (Cavalry Battle)
Ortega River ( sinking of CSS St. Marys)
Palatka (occupation - battle / yacht CSS America{America's Cup namesake})
Farm Market JAX (Battle of Brick Church)
Marietta (Camp Finnegan)
White House (Camp Milton {PARK} Pine Cone War)
Baldwin (Federal Raid - Rail Jct - first use of railroad guns - burning)
Macclenny (skirmish)
Glen St. Mary (small battle delaying action)
Lake City (Battle 1 mi east of town about 2,000 engaged)
Olustee (Between 15,000 - 20,000 engaged in Florida's largest battle)

Question is... How MANY of those flags could we sell? Hot Dogs? Visitors Maps? Musical shows? Parades? Reenactments? Hotel Rooms? Restaurants? etc... Give them Jacksonville and the FIRST COAST and pack em in!

If we must take out the old Park Inn and Caddie dealership, why not reconstruct the huge earthworks, walls and Federal fortifications complete with park, cannon, lookouts, nice lawn, lighting, and make it a family place?

OCKLAWAHA