Dredging the St Johns

[Dog Walker]

Have they done any studies to see if stripping off the clay bottom layer to the limestone rock and below would do to possible salt water intrusion into the Floridan aquifer?  If memory serves, this was one of the issues that got the Cross Florida Barge Canal killed.

Slightly off the subject, but seriously no joke:  When there was discussion about the Dames Point Bridge being too low for some of the big cruise ships, I heard a woman in a local restaurant say, "Why don't they just dig the river a little deeper under the bridge?"  Left me completely speechless!

[billy]

My parents swear they overheard two tourists in Saint Augustine  near the Bridge of Lions.
They were looking at an oyster bed and sand bars exposed at low tide,
and one said, "They must really be having a bad drought."

[Ocklawaha]

YUP! But if you want to see a LIBERAL city, with incredible drive and vision, go downtown and grab the microfilms of any JAX newspaper prior to WWII. We led not only the south but the whole nation in integration, development, and rail traffic. We led Florida as the MASTER SKYLINE in the state, and everything we see in Miami, should have been here. Miami, Tampa and Orlando are what they are because we financed and built them. Not expanding the port facilities and dredging the river when we had the shipyards of Florida in our backyard was perhaps where we first dropped the ball?

Last time I was in "The Oyster Bar" there was certainly no drought. HIC!





Actually, you COULD dig the river a little deeper. Maybe she wasn't as dumb as you think, you see with the bilges flooded the ships can be made to ride lower in the water, which WOULD indeed afford more overhead clearance. See example above, with the same ship at two levels, SS American Fortitude

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

YES! We should have so much traffic at our port. Imagine the development and quality jobs that would create.

Ock, you can have this.  Jobs without quality of life mean little.  What are we working so hard for?  A mere existence?  Most quality jobs follow quality of life.

I care about my quality of life in Jax and the river is an important part of that.  Maybe as much as rail means to you. Take away the river and I'm not so sure Jax is as special as it is now to many of its citizens or visitors.  In my book, there are limits to everything.  We need to find a reasonable line and live with it.  That's all I am saying.

[CS Foltz]

Ock..........you can take on water to lower the overhead but that is limited! Better to deepen channel if possible!

[tufsu1]

Ock..........you can take on water to lower the overhead but that is limited! Better to deepen channel if possible!

what funds do you suggest using for this project?

[Ocklawaha]

YES! We should have so much traffic at our port. Imagine the development and quality jobs that would create.

Ock, you can have this.  Jobs without quality of life mean little.  What are we working so hard for?  A mere existence?  Most quality jobs follow quality of life.

I care about my quality of life in Jax and the river is an important part of that.  Maybe as much as rail means to you. Take away the river and I'm not so sure Jax is as special as it is now to many of its citizens or visitors.  In my book, there are limits to everything.  We need to find a reasonable line and live with it.  That's all I am saying.

The original premise of this line of discussion was that this SHOULD have been done in the WWII era, and for that reason, I think it might have changed history for the better locally. It's possible it could have turned ugly, but without the population and pollution levels of today, but in the 70 years since it could have been repaired if needs be. Meanwhile we would be in the catbird seat of the Atlantic. My comments also involve some things I KNOW are in store for us that I'm not even sure the Port Authority knows... BIG! HUGE!

BTW boyz and Girls, here are the max dimensions of the new cargo vessels known as "Panamax".

    * Length: 965 ft (294.13 m)
    * Beam (width): 106 ft (32.31 m)
    * Draft: 39.5 ft (12.04 m) in tropical fresh water (the salinity and temperature of water affect  its density, and hence how deep a ship will float in the water)
    * Air draft: 190 ft (57.91 m) measured from the waterline to the vessel's highest point

42 feet is good, but it doesn't give us a hell of a lot of wiggle room, and frankly will probably stir MORE sediment then if it went another 10-20 feet deeper.

Ock..........you can take on water to lower the overhead but that is limited! Better to deepen channel if possible!

Oh yeah, the old salts on here know what it is to "ship water over the gunnels..." Tell you what CS, you try it and send me a PM and let me know how well it went! LOL! Several shipping lines have already looked at the Broward Bridge fiasco with an eye on running LOW to clear it. I wonder how many times FHP is going to have to stop all traffic on I-295 while some behemoth steams under the span?

Ock..........you can take on water to lower the overhead but that is limited! Better to deepen channel if possible!

what funds do you suggest using for this project?

We are speaking of days of the future past as far as the channel goes. No funds are required to flood the bilges and settle-her down a few feet, as long as the bottom clearance is still a few feet off the bedrock. As for today type projects, my money would be on the first 1/5 of a mile of the Trout River, allowing for marine terminal development up to where Gate Concrete is today on the North Bank, and all along the south shore from Main Street East into the St. Johns. The same area where Adolph Hitlers yacht rusted away until we hauled it off shore and sank it... (Along with the chance of one of the most sobering displays in world maritime museum history) Typical Jacksonville... BOOM! Blub, Blub, Blub...

When thinking about all of this port stuff, be sure and relax with a TITANIC BEER, "IT ALWAYS GOES DOWN COLD!"



OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Ock, imagine if the original rail lines to the Beach and Mayport (shown in maps below) had led to Mayport becoming a major port facility instead of a Naval Base.  How might our history have changed since?  Mayport would have easily served as a deep water facility over all these years past and into years of the future.  Of course, we would have all that freight rumbling down the Atlantic and Beach Blvd. corridors.  That might not be such a pretty picture (not that the urban sprawl infill is so great either).

Mouth of St. Johns River, 1918:



Mayport, 1918:



Pablo (Jacksonville) Beach, 1918:




Atlantic Beach, 1918: