Mayport Cruise Ship Terminal Proposal

[reednavy]

Well said Ock. Mayport is not a seperate community, is part of the C.O.J. and as a citizen, Mayport's future is of insterest to me because this will affect the image of the city quite a bit.

I'm sorry, but they can say all they want, it looks like garbage. Last time I checked trash on the streets and boarded up stores is hardly chic, cosmopolitan, tasteful, or pleasing to the eye.

Mayport had plenty of opportunites to clean their crap up, and it is either sink or swim for them, and has been for years. Apparently, they have been sinking for a while, long before I moved here.

Mayport is Jacksonville, and what these passengers see in Mayport will greatly determine their opinion of the nation's 12th largest city. That opinion can dictate whether they want to explore the city, or jsut chill at The Beaches, rub shoulders with the wealthy in PVB, or drive down to the tourist trap that is St. Augustine.

This terminal is probably the city's largest non-sporting event chance to show what it can do and looks like. I do not want people from Atlanta, Birmingham, or Nashville giving bad opinions about the city I now call home, based on a stupidly designated, historic my azz, fishing "village".

[ChriswUfGator]

again, the purpose of eminent domain is to allow government to acquire land at a fair price in order to provide fo something (roads, schools, utilities, etc.) that benefit the community as a whole....in Florida, as elsewhere in the nation, eminent domain can be used for economic development...the Supreme Court affirmed this in the Kelo case a few years ago

Within 3 months of the Kelo decision, Florida passed Bill 1567, which completely gutted the right of local governments to seize property for economic reasons.

The way things stand now, it has to be a bridge or a highway, or something like that. They can no longer cite "economic development" or "blight" as a valid reason for seizing property.

http://www.northcountrygazette.org/articles/051306FloridaReform.html

Since that time, 40+ out of the 50 states have passed similar legislation. Kelo is no longer relevant.

[tufsu1]

not quite....Florida already had strong rules on the books regarding eminent domain for economic development....it deals with CRAs and "blighted" areas....the bill you refer to pretty much clarified what was already in statute and rule.

That said, I agree that Kelo doesn't matter in this case....because JaxPort already has the land!

[BridgeTroll]

Since jaxport already owns the land perhaps the question Mayport should answer is...

Do you want a nice cruise ship with tourists and shops and restaraunts or tankers and container ships?

You guys talk it out amongst yourselves and get back to us...

[jagsfan32092]

I believe this is a great thing for the Mayport area.  The building and surrounding areas can be kept up in the same theme as Mayport.  I go to Mayport about once a month to Safe Harbor.  I'm sorry but having a handful of cruise ships will not be any worse than having gambling boats.  The traffic, one or two days a week will be rough (remember, those people park for days at a time) and parking will not be bad.  That is what a parking garage is for.  With the Wonderwood Expressway, most people will miss Mayport road.  It's a shame that a GREAT opportunity will be lost. 

[blizz01]

Fascination embarks record number of passengers from Jacksonville
Jacksonville Business Journal

The Jacksonville Port Authority’s cruise terminal set a record last week when 2,623 passengers embarked on Carnival Cruise Lines’ Fascination cruise to Half Moon Cay and Nassau, Bahamas.

The previous record for a single cruise was 2,539 passengers, set earlier this year. The record-breaking cruise comes after the authority pulled back on its plans to build a $60 million terminal in Mayport Village to focus on its cargo business and see how the cruise industry weathers the recession.

....tsk-tsk.

[BridgeTroll]

I wonder how many meals, do dads, and whatnots those folks may have bought if they were catching the boat in historic Mayport??

[ChriswUfGator]

not quite....Florida already had strong rules on the books regarding eminent domain for economic development....it deals with CRAs and "blighted" areas....the bill you refer to pretty much clarified what was already in statute and rule.

That said, I agree that Kelo doesn't matter in this case....because JaxPort already has the land!

That's not really true. The whole premise of the Kelo-type cases was usually that the county or state wants to seize the land claiming an "economic" interest its redevelopment, rather than claiming a physical interest in needing to put a road in, etc. Another popular alternative was designating an area as "blighted" (even if it wasn't), just in order to set the stage for exercising ED.

Following 1567, this type of behavior (which is to say, the same fact pattern in Kelo) is now expressly prohibited in this state. My prior assessment is entirely accurate. 1567 largely gutted eminent domain powers in this state, by removing the most widely used options for exercising it. It didn't just clarify what was already there, it actually took away a significant chunk of eminent domain power.

[reednavy]

Ok, Jaxport already has the land, so the eminent domain issue goes right out the window, so to speak.

Build the damn thing, to me, Mayport was a village, now mostly wasted river frontage.

Harsh yes, but fairly true.

[ChriswUfGator]

Well yeah, you're right about that. They've demolished a lot of it, just since I've been in town. There used to be commercial buildings and stores, now they're all gone. There also used to be a lot of active docks, with lots of commercial vessels, shrimp boats and such. They're all gone now, just rotting pilings. The only active docks left are the ones behind Singleton's. There were 2 or 3 Casino boats when I got here, much larger than the one that is there now (although the really big one was a real POS. It was a converted freighter and would break down and get stuck about every time it went out. Fun times). A couple tackle and bait shops, they're gone too.

I'm guessing the people who live there have to drive a ways to get anything they need. That part is sad.

But my only point with all this is, if everybody who actually lives there says they don't want it, then there are more than enough spots on the river where you could put it, without cramming it down peoples' throats. That's all. It just bothers me to see people who've lived in a place forever have their community so drastically changed over their own wishes. Just doesn't seem right.

[mtraininjax]

Chris - Ask the people of Yukon if they appreciated the Navy taking off and landing in front of their post office. Sign of the times also brings in revenue to the local area. Yukon is still there, smaller than before, but they weathered the storm. The shacks of Mayport will weather this storm as well, but all of Jax can prosper, just as we have with the Navy.

[blizz01]

"there is not a chance we would loose the cruise industry." - Despite excellent numbers, this seems naive.  This can't keep getting pushed back.............

Business strong, but cruise terminal for Jacksonville on hold
Jacksonville Business Journal - by Mark Szakonyi

The Jacksonville Port Authority doesn’t expect to restart its push to build a new cruise terminal for at least another year.

Since the authority pulled back on its pursuit in March, the infrastructure bond market has improved and ships are being filled with passengers despite cruise opponents’ warning that the recession would cripple the industry. But authority board chairman William Mason said his priority is getting Hanjin Shipping Co. Ltd’s $208 million terminal online, which is expected to be open at the site of the current cruise terminal in 2012.

“I don’t think there is any chance we are going to lose the cruise industry,” said Mason.

The authority last week signed a two-year contract with Carnival Cruise Lines to keep service of its 2,052-passenger Fascination. Since October, the cruise ship has been running at nearly 113 percent capacity, said Tony Orsini, the authority’s senior director of cruise operations.

He said Carnival has reduced rates for the Jacksonville-based cruise but not by as much as it has cut cruise packages in other locations. The cruise industry as a whole has fared well in the recession, but Jacksonville’s cruise industry has the added plus of being a heavy drive-to market, meaning passengers don’t have to buy plane tickets. A third of the country is able to drive to Jacksonville in 24 hours or less.

Despite being a drive-to market, Jacksonville International Airport has experienced an increase in cruise-bound passengers, said Michael Stewart, Jacksonville Aviation Authority spokesman.

He said about 15 percent of the cruise-goers come through the airport and the majority come in on Saturday, which is a slow day for the business-passenger heavy airport. Jacksonville Port Authority Executive Director Rick Ferrin said the latest construction of a new cruise terminal could start is April 2012.

The cruise lines could be diverted to a temporary terminal while a new terminal is built and the existing cruise terminal could be kept open longer by making it the last structure to be demolished to make way for the Hanjin facility.

Although the authority’s call for design bids was recalled, the terminal was expected to include a 1,400-space, five-story parking garage and about 25,000 square feet of retail space. The construction would create about 1,500 jobs and have an annual $500 million impact on the area, said Louis Woods, a University of North Florida economics and geography professor, based on an economic analysis commissioned by the authority.

With 40 percent of passengers staying in Jacksonville before or after the cruise, hotels logged about 18,000 room-nights annually, Dan King, general manager of the Hyatt Regency Jacksonville Riverfront, said previously. Hotels reported a 6 percent to 7 percent occupancy drop when cruise service stopped between April and mid-September.

Each cruise passenger spends about $300 in the area, said Visit Jacksonville spokeswoman Lyndsay Rossman, and the Fascination has a $25 million impact on the area per call.

[Jason]

I kind of agree.  Lock down Hanjin and then push for the new terminal.  The city has a proposal already.  They just need to work with the locals to make it happen.  IMO, Hanjin will benefit this economy FAR more than the cruise industry.  Although, keeping both is even better! 

[blizz01]

This was all over the news yesterday - look familiar?
Oasis of the Seas Under the Bridge of Storebaelt Denmark
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3667427/oasis_of_the_seas_under_the_bridge_of_storebaelt_denmark/

[Jason]

Man..... that ship is flipping HUGE!!!

The largest cruise ship in the world Oasis of the Seas cruised under the Storebealt bridge Denmark 15 minutes past midnight 31 of November 2009. The ship is 72 meters high and the bridge is 65 meter. But with very high speed and funnels lowed down they had a margin of 1 meter and 25 cm up to the bridge. The ship had the highest speed it can have so it plowed itself down in the sea so it could go under. it will not stop in Europe but go directly to Florida.

Just think of what that puppy will look like parked at Port Everglades.