Mayport Cruise Ship Terminal Proposal

[tufsu1]

no...but it is expected shortly...if they stay on the schedule discussed at their last board meeting

[rayna22]

i personally used to live out at mayport and i think it will be great for the mayport area and the surrounding areas.  the fun that could be had and the work that could be done its gona be great.

[Ocklawaha]

Is there an advertised Request For Proposals at this point?

Not that I've heard of, though one company did propose a building that is tilted to look like an old washing machine, a giant spare tire lays against one side where the shopping and restaurants would be, and the parking garage looks like a 1957 model Edsel on Concrete Blocks... You know, to keep with the theme of the historic surroundings.

Good God Jacksonville lets GET-R-DONE!

OCKLAWAHA

[Charles Hunter]

JaxPort has withdrawn its efforts to rezone the property and the RFP (or will not issue one) for a Mayport Cruise Terminal for the time being. 

[fsujax]

I think "for the time being" is important to note. It will be back.

[Ocklawaha]

I think "for the time being" is important to note. It will be back.

No doubt, there isn't a whole host of alternatives thanks to that lower then the maritime industry wanted JTA bridge (I just couldn't resist that!).

OCKLAWAHA

[ChriswUfGator]

I think "for the time being" is important to note. It will be back.

Exactly. The way stuff works around here, they're hatching some plot behind the scenes to overrule what the people who actually live and work in that area want.

This will be exactly like the Craig airport extension. Nobody wants it except for some stupid bureaucrat, but still the issue keeps coming up again and again again. Actually Craig is even worse than Mayport with the way they handled it.

They got into litigation over it 10 years ago, and negotiated a settlement where in exchange for the last runway extension the residents approved, they promised to never seek another one. Well 10 years later, they break their own agreement and go right ahead and try and get another extension anyway. It's ridiculous.

[Ocklawaha]

"AHOY MAYPORT! HEAVE TOO AND STAND BY FOR A RAM!"

I just don't see the Mayport thing as some great conspiracy. The village is unkept, in fact it's a total wreck save for a few homeowners who maintain their property. The waterfront is a sea of decay, old rotting docks and piles, and stinking heaps of shell fish guts. Most of the business buildings were empty.

The few historic homes are NOT endangered by the Port, and the only unknown is the little history village which I'm sure could be moved across the street or included in the port as a cool diversion, retail and food mall with a nice museum inside.

JaxPort has been very open with this whole process. The COJ and PORT have asked the Mayport community to help design the terminal, they've offered to include Mayport citizens in the job creation, addressed the environmental concerns, Power concerns, road concerns, parking concerns. They asked the Mayport businesses to come into the new terminal, they offered a boat basin and new docks, they have done everything but move the BOA building to Mayport. Still Mayport has given the City the collective middle finger apparently forgetting they could have opted out of Jacksonville in Consolidation by incorporating their village. Sorry to say, they are now part of the whole of Jacksonville, and the old "Greater Good" argument is VERY applicable to this situation.

Mayport will find that they'd attract a lot more flies with honey then vinegar. Bottom line is the city could use one of two approaches here: The old "Jessie James Method" where they just condemn the farm then blow it up without removing the occupants first, or, The "Kid Glove Method" which is exactly what they've done. Being that they have been stonewalled at every turn, the port and COJ might now be gathering their forces for a full frontal assault on the ramparts (and who could blame them?).... or as they say in the Navy - "STAND BY FOR A RAM!"

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Exactly. The way stuff works around here, they're hatching some plot behind the scenes to overrule what the people who actually live and work in that area want.

sometimes what the people who live/work there want is not what is best for the entire community....its called NIMBY-ism (not in my back yard)....or BANANA (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything)....which is why government has limited powers to condemn property through eminent domain.

[blizz01]

This will be exactly like the Craig airport extension. Nobody wants it except for some stupid bureaucrat

I think that the majority DO want this, however, there is a vocal minority who do not.  Of course, the folks who do don't actually live in Mayport, but.....................

[ChriswUfGator]

Exactly. The way stuff works around here, they're hatching some plot behind the scenes to overrule what the people who actually live and work in that area want.

sometimes what the people who live/work there want is not what is best for the entire community....its called NIMBY-ism (not in my back yard)....or BANANA (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything)....which is why government has limited powers to condemn property through eminent domain.

That cuts both ways...

I sure don't see anybody with any of those giant $10 million dollar houses over off Fort Caroline Rd. and Mt. Pleasant offering to park giant cruise ships in their own back yard to obliterate their views, not to mention the thousands of people and horrendous traffic they bring along with them.

No, with few exceptions (more like "none" that I know of) all the people pushing this thing don't live in or have much to do with Mayport. This isn't a simple case of "NIMBY", it's a situation where you've got all these people who have nothing to do with a community saying "Oh yeah...It's goin' in YOUR back yard".

That's not fair.

[reednavy]

What isn't fair is giving a historic designation to a place that looks like utter garbage everyday. Most of what is directly across the river from the site is boat marinas and the ferry terminal, the homes are slightly further upriver.

Another thing is that these ships are only in homeport for 2 to 3 days max, from what I've seen, before they go back out. I honestly think it'd be neat to get to see a cruise ship from my deck across the river if I lived there.

This is turning more into a catfight of people wanting to preserve something that is far from historic IMO and those of many others. The only historic thing there is something you can't even get to because it is on NS Mayport property, the lighthouse.

This cruise port is going to play a large part in the continuing growth of Jacksonville as a destination and port city. Miami and Port Everglades(Fort Lauderdale) are out of room and Port Canaveral is coming close and is also starting to charge higher rates. Jax is cheaper and easier to get to for more people who want to take a cruise, that is plain and simple. We have a large SE market to draw from, basically cockblocking some cruise traffic for ports further south, namely Canaveral.

[ChriswUfGator]

What isn't fair is giving a historic designation to a place that looks like utter garbage everyday. Most of what is directly across the river from the site is boat marinas and the ferry terminal, the homes are slightly further upriver.

Another thing is that these ships are only in homeport for 2 to 3 days max, from what I've seen, before they go back out. I honestly think it'd be neat to get to see a cruise ship from my deck across the river if I lived there.

This is turning more into a catfight of people wanting to preserve something that is far from historic IMO and those of many others. The only historic thing there is something you can't even get to because it is on NS Mayport property, the lighthouse.

This cruise port is going to play a large part in the continuing growth of Jacksonville as a destination and port city. Miami and Port Everglades(Fort Lauderdale) are out of room and Port Canaveral is coming close and is also starting to charge higher rates. Jax is cheaper and easier to get to for more people who want to take a cruise, that is plain and simple. We have a large SE market to draw from, basically cockblocking some cruise traffic for ports further south, namely Canaveral.

Do you live in Mayport?

Because if not, then your comments and opinions on this subject have just proven my point about how this whole thing is being handled over the objections of the folks who actually live and work there...

You have no more right to say their community looks like garbage and nobody would care if you dumped 3000 people a week through their formerly sleepy town, than they have any right to tell you what kind of grass you can grow in your community.

[tufsu1]

again, the purpose of eminent domain is to allow government to acquire land at a fair price in order to provide fo something (roads, schools, utilities, etc.) that benefit the community as a whole....in Florida, as elsewhere in the nation, eminent domain can be used for economic development...the Supreme Court affirmed this in the Kelo case a few years ago

In the case of JaxPort, they already own the land (as part of a swap with the City)...and are just seeking the land use approvals to allow the cruise terminal on land that is already zoned for similar uses.

[Ocklawaha]

Do you live in Mayport?

Because if not, then your comments and opinions on this subject have just proven my point about how this whole thing is being handled over the objections of the folks who actually live and work there...

You have no more right to say their community looks like garbage and nobody would care if you dumped 3000 people a week through their formerly sleepy town, than they have any right to tell you what kind of grass you can grow in your community.

Uh, maybe not Mayport proper but my zip code is the same! Your statement: "through their formerly sleepy town." says a lot.

"Their" in this case is US! It is OUR SLEEPY TOWN ... AKA: Jacksonville. Mayport is no more a "Town" then Ortega, St. Johns Town Center, or Cecil Field. They are all subject to the will of the greater majority that we call Jacksonville.

Before someone goes off bleeding for "Mayportites," let me remind you that Baldwin, Atlantic, Neptune and Jacksonville Beach all stayed OUT of the Consolidated City of Jacksonville by VOTE! Mayport could have done the same but they didn't have their act together then, and they still don't.

Since Mayport belongs as much to the guy off Lem Turner as it does the guy off A-1-A, I'd say removal of 4-5 blocks of rotting wharves, clapboard shacks and other long dead commercial businesses and replacing them with a clean, dynamic, artsy terminal building, should be the least of their worries.

Electric? The Terminal will guarantee that Mayport has the best service JEA can offer.

Sewer? Again, only the best will do when your going to flush the tanks on a cruise ship.

Trash? You can bet you sweet bippie that Mayport will be kept sparkling clean.

Parking? The JPA won't get the go unless they have a plan in hand to take in EVERY car that visits.

Ferry? This attraction might well be kept on life support until the terminal is finished, and at that time it will once again become a prime attraction.

Retail? Right now the only thing one can buy in Mayport is dead fish. Gee what a curse for them to be able to shop at home.

Restaurants? Where we now sit and eat fish amidst the aroma of dead ones, we'll soon have clean, spotless choices, and mater of fact, the same businesses have been invited to play.

Dockage? We are going to build a complete basin for the shrimpers but they don't want to leave the rotting piers they are so fond of.

Traffic? Hell will freeze over before that link of A-1-A is ever improved, give us the port and watch that road become a model street not unlike Zoo Parkway.

History? Maybe they'll get a historic marker or two...

As it is, the Lighthouse is on the Navy Base and strictly off limits.

Historic Fort Steele is completely gone without a trace.

The Buccaneer Ferry is gone and might as well be sunk.

The Jacksonville and Atlantic Railroad is gone without a trace.

The Jacksonville Mayport and Pablo Beach Railroad is gone without a trace.

Mayport Union Station still stands but only because the City of Jacksonville has created a historic park around it.

The business district is gone, save for a couple of hanger on's.

So what's the beef? I grew up in Ortega and played all through the woods of Yukon (across from NAS JAX MAIN RUNWAY). Today Yukon and Mayport look pretty much like twin neighborhoods. They are both too dead to bury. Sadly, there is no salvation for Yukon - short of a new rail passenger station, nothing could bring it back. I'd give my left nut to see a new Cruise Terminal at Yukon, The Webb's, The Butt's and many other old time families would rejoice... but no cruise ship is going up the Ortega River! Mayport is lucky to have a savior, sadly they want a crucifixion instead.

OCKLAWAHA