Jacksonville joins race for federal funds

[JeffreyS]

I do not think we should just start small and get the ball rolling. I think we should have a grand master plan that demands fixed rail and streetcar and when someone has some brt scheme they should be laughed out of the room and told we want first class transit. The fact we do not have a plan we can turn in when funds are becoming available is appalling.  How can a transit operation the size of the JTA not have an "if funds were available plan" in their back pocket for an area they have administered for decades is keystone copish. 
As for our Mayor please become an advocate for our city and not just your fathers business interests.  You ignore this group at your reputations peril years after you leave office we will be making sure that your incompetence is highlighted for all.
It pains me to see cities like Charlotte managed by the mantra we will do what is best for the city and know Jacksonville won't demand what is best.
Our mantra of it will be easier to get what is second rate sucks.

[thelakelander]

Starting small does not mean you don't have a plan.  Charlotte, Salt Lake City, Houston and Austin are great examples to follow.  They have master plans, but made the move to get their starter lines up and running.  If we don't do anything until we can move forward with a grand massive plan, nothing will ever change.

[thelakelander]

Ock, has the state asked for money to get Amtrak running on the FEC corridor?  If thats a project that is not ready to go, I don't know what is.

[JeffreyS]

Starting small does not mean you don't have a plan.  Charlotte, Salt Lake City, Houston and Austin are great examples to follow.  They have master plans, but made the move to get their starter lines up and running.  If we don't do anything until we can move forward with a grand massive plan, nothing will ever change.

OK I get you have to put the first nail somewhere.  I would be happy just to see a streetcar go from the Landing through the "E district" to the Sports Complex.  I just don't want us to think small.  The skyway has been seen as this stand alone thing that is a failure because it was supposed to start the ball rolling as opposed to being the first step of a plan that had a designated second, third and fourth step ect.  I know they cut the skyway short probably because it was seen as a defined project instead of as a required piece of a larger transit system that would be wasted if you did not complete the steps.  Sadly you can't do small projects with just the hope that they will inspire further projects. (IMO I certainly am no expert most if not all of what I have learned of transit I learned here and a winter with a eurail pass.)

[thelakelander]

I'd like us to think big and implement realistically.

Most projects are phased.  For example, its taken decades to get the 295 Beltway completed.  Even with it being a priority, it will take decades to get the Outer Beltway built as well. 

The skyway was a horrible plan all around.  Wrong type of system, bad routes selected (even a starter should serve more than just downtown), over built and already too expensive. 

Commitment is the key to staying on course.  However, if you can't commit to a decent starter (it still needs to work and connect where people want to go), you'll never commit to constructing a regional wide system.

[JeffreyS]

I am sure you are correct but for me it would be easier to commit to a regional system that spelled out the big picture.  Even if implemented in phases having that committed map to hang on the wall would be a great selling tool for the public, area investors and organizations looking to relocate.

[brainstormer]

Both Lake and Jeffrey make excellent points.  One of the problems here is that Jacksonville is a big city with big city problems like out of control sprawl, large amounts of traffic, high crime rates, huge areas of economic deprivation, etc.  We also have positive aspects of a big city such as an NFL team, a growing port, numerous corporate headquarters, a competitive medical industry, etc. 
I think one of the problems with our local government and with many citizens is that they refuse to think of Jacksonville as a big city.  They approach everything with small narrow thinking, trying to keep the city conservative and small.  We approach one issue like crime, by trying to micromanage it.  We approach traffic problems by building another lane.  If we could think outside of the box, we could solve both of these issues with mass transit.  No need for wider roads and the economic vitality and stability that comes with mass transit would decrease crime as well.  But no, our leaders refuse to think big.  This small town thinking will continue to hurt us because one can not address the problems we have until we begin to think on a grander scale.  Yes there should be a Duval County approach to mass transit.  There should be a VISION for the FUTURE.  It should include rail, bus, skyway, streetcar, etc.  It should connect the beaches to the airport to the southside, and then beyond, into St. John's and Clay.  There should be a focus on increasing downtown's vitality.  So many of our problems could be fixed with a mass transit push and a renewal of infill development on a massive scale.  Imagine if in 20 years this city was no longer known for its huge land area and ridiculous sprawl, but rather for how mass transit could revolutionize how people get around in such a spread out city.  We could be the poster child.  I truly believe cities investing in mass transit and the economic growth that comes with it will become the hot spots in the next 25 years.  When Regency closes will it just become a place for criminals and graffiti, or will it be rebuilt as a TOD/light rail station between the ocean and downtown?  Will it still take an hour to drive from one side of the city to the other, or will it be faster to take the train?  Will the Superbowl in 2025 be in Tampa, or will it be in the city with one of the best mass transit systems in the state?  Will the next Mathews Bridge be a bridge or a tunnel?  Will Jacksonville turn into the 1980s Detroit, or will we get off our asses and make something of this city and Duval County?  The time is now!  The next few years are critical.

[vicupstate]

Very, very, very well said brainstormer.

[JeffreyS]

Yes brainstormer I concur.

[thelakelander]

Great points guys.

[ProjectMaximus]

agreed. so what now?

[thelakelander]

I think the key thing right now is to not allow the Mayor to shift local transit money for his road stimulus package.  All of our transporation projects should be re-evaluated and ranked based on merit.

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, has the state asked for money to get Amtrak running on the FEC corridor?  If thats a project that is not ready to go, I don't know what is.

Lake, unless something has happened in the last 4 weeks, the Republican Governor is following hard in the shoes of Lil Jeb, of the train hating Bushes. Will anyone at DOT or JTA make a move toward Obama's rail handouts? If I know the history of these clowns, the clock says no - at least not until Obama moves to fund 4 lane county roads... then we'll be all over it.

It's a sad state when the FEC is willing, Amtrak is ready not for just one but 5 - count them FIVE trains a day, the State has the money on the side, and not a chirp in a carload.

Meanwhile Jacksonville, as no station, no crew base, no service facilitys, no catering facilitys and two lousy trains a day serve the whole state...if one dares call 2 trains "service".   

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

not true...in fact, Crist came out publicly a few weeks ago (not that way folks ) in favor of the Orlando commuter rail project.

Again, the big problem here is that Florida has many unfunded transportation needs....both roads and transit....but very few transit projects are ready to go....

now part of the blame for that goes to Jeb, who killed high speed rail and dragged his feet on regional intermodal centers for Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, and Miami.

[thelakelander]

Yes, Crist is in favor of the Orlando commuter rail project.  Tufsu1, is there a list somewhere of Florida transit projects ready to go?