Creek to generate electricity (moved from other thread)...

[zoo]

What does everyone think about using tidal flow to generate the electricity to light the parks and the commercial corridors? SPAR is paying for commercial corridor lighting right now, I think. Seems like that should be a city expense!?

[thelakelander]

Why is SPAR paying to light public streets?  Other than that, how much will it cost to use tidal flow to generate electricity?  The concept sounds interesting.

[strider]

I believe that those types of systems require some type of economy of scale to really work due to the costs.  On the other hand, for a few hundred dollars, you can now buy wind generators that put out enough to keep a bunch of batteries charged.  Aren't some street lights partially powered by Solar now?  Or are those solar panels for something else?

[BridgeTroll]

I dont think there is enough flow to generate electricity.  Everything I have read mentions a minimum of 2 or 3 knots flow rate...

[Ocklawaha]

This all started back in the hippie "back to the land-off the grid" movement of about 1970+. At that time The Last Whole Earth Catalog had several articles and contacts (LWEC = it was the net in print) for "new" low head (fall) power generation for home use. The next editions were packed full of mom and pop experimenter type businesses with home hydro-electric. Then GE and others started researching and producing some of those machines for small applications. As my family is from the Ozarks-Prairie of the AR-OK-MO-KS area, many family members and farms went off the grid for good. I know the tidal surges were the next logical step, so why not small? I'm sure it's out there - just waiting for us to try.

OCKLAWAHA

[JaxByDefault]

What does everyone think about using tidal flow to generate the electricity to light the parks and the commercial corridors? SPAR is paying for commercial corridor lighting right now, I think. Seems like that should be a city expense!?

This should be a city / JEA expense.

How much does this service cost and where does this appear on SPARs 990s?

Did SPAR agree to pay a certain amount to get the "historic" lighting installed on the commercial corridor (just as they initially agreed to maintain the medians on Main between 1st and 4th), or is the city charging for the actual utility cost. If it's the latter, and Riverside and San Marco are not shouldering such a cost, I'd be happy to help straighten the city/JEA out on that matter.

[FinnegansWake]

I don't think SPAR is paying that expense. I don't remember seeing that expense in October anyway. And to echo...why would they pay that bill?

Phil

[sheclown]

I agree that it is very unlikely that SPAR Council is responsible for the lighting costs on main street.  In fact, the lights we have were actually less than the ones the city wanted to put in - the fancy wire gizmos on the ones downtown were just basically left off (I hope I'm remembering this right,anyway!).

[zoo]

SPAR pays the utility service cost to JEA monthly for the historic light poles from 1st-4th Sts. The org is also responsible for some maintenance (replacing broken bulbs). This was negotiated by Ron Hooglin with GAI (a city contractor), and currently costs the org about $8/month. It's my understanding that Michael Trautmann paid this for awhile.

It is also my understanding that once 4th-12th are complete, some other arrangement will be made. What that will be is not determined, yet, but the city is very interested in finding any other ways to pay for anything these days.

This is important to the parks revitalization, as I think most in the neighborhood would like to see the approved Greenway project lit with historic lighting someday (lighting that currently doesn't exist, and no one is paying for), no?

To COJ, and JEA, Springfield's pretty park lights are just another cost to add to the overall project...

[uptowngirl]

Zoo if I remember correctly Hogans used to produce electricty waaaayyy back when, before it became the local dumping grounds for shopping carts and trash. I think it would be great to bring the creek back, historical too 

[downtownparks]

According to a 1930 Engineering Magazine Chris Farley has, it has flood gates and massive pumps (one of which is in the JEA building at 1st and Main), but doesn't mention any hydro electric functionality. I have scans of the magazine somewhere, I will see if I can find them and post it.

[zoo]

The drawings that I have seen show Klutho and Imeson's system included two tide gates -- a north gate, whose location is not clear to me from the drawings, and a south gate that was located near Bay Street. My walks of the creek, and in particular the area of it down by Bay Street and Maxwell House, give no indication that these even exist anymore, let alone could be rendered re-operational.

The system also had its own freestanding pumphouse, which I suspect was also down near Bay Street, and which no longer exists. The two ponds that were filled had spillways that allowed for regulation of water levels in the ponds during high/low tides - it is not known whether any remnants of these still exist, but I think it is unlikely as they would not be located beneath existing water levels.

Klutho and Imeson were incredibly smart for the day, as the system was originally designed to manage tidal and stormwater flows, as well as being aesthetically pleasing and functional as a public amenity. To date, I have seen no evidence the creek was used to generate power, but look forward to the 30s Eng Mag scan.

[zoo]

solar may be cheaper as you could mount it on the poles itself.

This is also being investigated.

[strider]

I seem to recall that at some point we were told that the gates were removed and simply dropped to the bottom in place.  So, they may "exist", but are also "gone".  I believe this was mentioned at a meeting with JEA?

[downtownparks]

Wouldn't be surprising. The lights that once lined the Balustrades and bridges are also missing. From what I have been able to track down it looks like the lights were taken down sometime in the 1950's.

I seem to remember reading or hearing that the gates were beautiful too.