Springfield Business Corridor

[strider]

When you are talking about help here, Lake, are you just talking about cosmetic improvements like with the past commercial facade grants?  While helping a business look better, it does nothing to help the business grow.  You can see where the grants were spent on a few buildings up Main that have been sitting empty for quite a while now.

To be honest, there are reasons why (none that I agree with, but...) Sammy's would not be freguented by many in Springfield even if it was a sparkling cool store and station.  As far as the owner's product mix, he simply must provide the types of products that his current clientele buys - it's what has kept him in business to date.  How would spending money on the cosmetics help that or change that?

I guess what I'm afraid of is that this:

*Ongoing elimination of commercial businesses providing substantial (substandard?) services to local area residents -Quality food store ... etc.
*Ongoing development of new higher quality commercial services Three Layers coffee house, Premier Pharmacy ...

…becomes the norm here because too many do not like the businesses that are here now.  What is interesting is that I know many who would not go to Premier Pharmacy before, will now that it is a "nice new building" yet the product and service has not changed. Another example is that I know that as Springfield changed so do the products at the Springfield Superette, yet there are some that will not go there.  How can the funds you are talking about be used to help in this instance?

In all fairness, I also know that some of our lower income residents would not go into Three layers on their own.  Yet they are the main stay for Sammy's.  Now that we (sheclown and I) have dragged a few in, the word is out and many of "our" guys, for instance,  go there for coffee and "wow, I never knew they did that with coffee!" mochas and lattes. What can be done to change the attitude of residents on both sides of the social economic equation so that the "right" kinds of businesses; those that can cater to all, can and do survive in this economic climate?

Is it not important to consider that when you are talking about convincing everyone to support the current businesses that are here now and to convince the businesses to add to or even change somewhat their product mix to accommodate all residents?

[sheclown]

I think the products will change, naturally, as more people request changes.  I know, for instance, that I have had an influence on my favorite store, FOOD LION, on Main Street.  God, I love that store.  I have shopped there for years.  The butcher lectures me on the evils of steak, the cashiers ask me where I've been if I skip a day or two --  I had a major complaint about two years ago.  I wanted/needed/demanded spinach for salads and they didn't carry that product.  I told them, loudly, no spinach, no Sheclown. 

They carry two kinds of bagged spinach now. 

Stores want to sell products. 

BTW, moon pies are awesome. 

I'd take a rose-in-a-tube from Strider.  You HEAR me STRIDER!  Any kind of flower.  Any time.  Think about it.  And I suppose moon pie would pass as chocolate candy.

A to Z could teach us all something about commercial development.  They could sing "I'm still standin'..."

[zoo]

I think accommodating ALL residents is key. This goes both ways.

There seems to be an assumption that the businesses that existed here before have not been tried by "new" residents. This is a load of hoo-ey. I have tried most, if not all, of the businesses that are/were on the corridors (after early 2005), with the exception of pawn shops, as I haven't a need for anything they sell.

And every time, I have tried to look for things that I find appealing, rather than things that would prevent me from returning. In some cases, I've found them, but in many cases it seems the businesses didn't want me shopping there any more than some assume I would want to shop there.

Attempts to reach out and support some businesses have been made, but it is only within the past year that some business owners have begun to realize they could do better if they modify their businesses to accommodate ALL residents, as you suggest. Maybe this openness has to do with efforts SPAR/SAMBA have made, or the contracting economy, or the number of suggestions for improvement is finally getting their attention, or some combination or none of the above.

Making businesses welcoming to all residents has to go both ways, not just one way (businesses like 3 Layers should go out of their way to make all feel welcome, but A-Z shouldn't).

Here's an example: Shands employees have supported Jerome Brown's. But many did not want to give it a second shake when their shoes stuck to the floor. Is having sticky floors appealing to ALL residents of Springfield (or any, for that matter?)

Some may not like it, but merchandising, including experience design, matters -- that's why customers will pay $2.50 for a latte or $25.00 for a cake at 3 Layers. Does this apply to Sammy's?!?!? Gasoline is gasoline, right? Well if you consider that he would have to sell 8 colts to equal sales revenues of one bottle of average wine (I'm not saying I want wine there - this is just economic reality), maybe it does...

[thelakelander]

When you are talking about help here, Lake, are you just talking about cosmetic improvements like with the past commercial facade grants?  While helping a business look better, it does nothing to help the business grow.  You can see where the grants were spent on a few buildings up Main that have been sitting empty for quite a while now.

No.  I'm saying if a better looking facility will help increase business its better for the community to focus on making this happen.  Sometimes you can get away with fresh coats of paint, landscaping, pressure washing and cleaning the floors.  If this is the case, there's no reason to get involved with something as complex as the ill-fated facade grant program.  Groups like SAMBA and SPAR could also help with better marketing efforts for Springfield businesses.  Sometimes decent solutions to problems don't require breaking the bank.  Instead a little creativity is needed.  Then when breaking the bank may be necessary, we do have things like the Northwest Trust Fund and Empowerment Zone programs to tap into.  

To be honest, there are reasons why (none that I agree with, but...) Sammy's would not be freguented by many in Springfield even if it was a sparkling cool store and station.  As far as the owner's product mix, he simply must provide the types of products that his current clientele buys - it's what has kept him in business to date.  How would spending money on the cosmetics help that or change that?

Springfield is too diverse to pigeon hole the community into two groups.  For example, I'm a guy that would stop at 9th & Main one night, be at Jerome Brown's the next and get a cold drink at Sammy's after a hard days work on the loft the following day.  On the other hand there are others that would visit 9th & Main but avoid Jerome Browns and some who frequent Jerome Browns but would avoid 9th & Main.  This is pretty common in a place as diverse as Springfield.  

Anyway, Sammy's will have a new potential pool of customers right next door to his place in a few months.  That's a demographics change.  While he won't be able to attract everyone, something as simple as cosmetic improvements can get additional open minded people in the door.

I guess what I'm afraid of is that this:

*Ongoing elimination of commercial businesses providing substantial (substandard?) services to local area residents -Quality food store ... etc.
*Ongoing development of new higher quality commercial services Three Layers coffee house, Premier Pharmacy ...

…becomes the norm here because too many do not like the businesses that are here now.  What is interesting is that I know many who would not go to Premier Pharmacy before, will now that it is a "nice new building" yet the product and service has not changed. Another example is that I know that as Springfield changed so do the products at the Springfield Superette, yet there are some that will not go there.  How can the funds you are talking about be used to help in this instance?

Premier Pharmacy is a prime example of an existing business that appeals to a wider customer base because of a cleaner facility.  I don't know what financial sources they used but the Northwest Jax Trust Fund and Enterprise Zone tax credits can be used in remodeling projects for existing buildings.  These types of things can be used to help our business owners improve their facilities without having the burden of footing the entire bill on their own, since their improvements help enhance a distressed community.

In all fairness, I also know that some of our lower income residents would not go into Three layers on their own.  Yet they are the main stay for Sammy's.  Now that we (sheclown and I) have dragged a few in, the word is out and many of "our" guys, for instance,  go there for coffee and "wow, I never knew they did that with coffee!" mochas and lattes. What can be done to change the attitude of residents on both sides of the social economic equation so that the "right" kinds of businesses; those that can cater to all, can and do survive in this economic climate?

There's no single answer, its a mix of things.  These can include better marketing of what is already existing in the community or better exterior signage for individual establishments.  For example, I just found out that there is a Quinzo's inside of FCCJ's campus.  I didn't know about Carl's Sunday buffet or Jerome's BBQ beef sandwich and sweet lemonade until I went in those places.  Better marketing can help with situations similar to what I described above.  Other things include residents making a personal effort to support local businesses and engaging business owners with ideas that can improve their service.  Its also important to accept that every place is not going to appeal to every single resident.  We also don't have too.  Our major streets are used daily by people traveling through the community.  This is another market to tap into.

[triclops i]

I dont post often, but I have to add...

as a current small bussiness owner in the neighborhood-
Lake is a voice of reason in the whole disscussion. Dead on about everything.

I

[sheclown]

I dont post often, but I have to add...

as a current small bussiness owner in the neighborhood-
Lake is a voice of reason in the whole disscussion. Dead on about everything.

I

I agree. Lake is very wise. 

[uptowngirl]

I noticed the BP on 8th is now open, anyone been there yet? It is clean, well lit and so far has kept the "hanging out in front and drinking a beer I will later throw on the ground" crowd out, but I wonder how long that will last if neighbors don't start shopping there? the gas prices are reasonable too.... I would say it is a heck of a deal when you consider the shell at the other end of 8th!

Has anyone even stopped to say hi? How about something in the SPAR newsletter? Anything at all to keep this place nice, clean, and safe for the neighborhood? I think this new BP will be a meter to measure how serious all the talk is about getting decent places in here....we will see if the neighborhood is serious, or not.

[sheclown]

Thanks for that post! 

I will fill up there next time.  Anyone interested in the business corridor ought to be buying gas in the neighborhood.  That's simple enough.

[downtownparks]

UTG. I have been getting my gas there the last few times. Its clean enough, but it feels very thrown together to me, and they are doing the same thing every other convenience store in the neighborhood is. They have two huge open face coolers filled to the brim with singles of every malt beverage you could ask for...

[strider]

UTG. I have been getting my gas there the last few times. Its clean enough, but it feels very thrown together to me, and they are doing the same thing every other convenience store in the neighborhood is. They have two huge open face coolers filled to the brim with singles of every malt beverage you could ask for...

Don't like the single beer sales?  Oh, well.  I really don't either, but it is what works in many areas of Jacksonville right now.  If all the others do it, he must as well to compete.  If enough of his regular clientele doesn't partake, then they won't be needed.

Your post, by the way, liens towards being....oh, never mind.  Just be aware that if you (and lots of others) continue with that type of attitude, this place will for sure "end up like all the others".  Which will probably be OK with the owner and the majority of Springfield.

[strider]

To quote Zoo:
Some may not like it, but merchandising, including experience design, matters -- that's why customers will pay $2.50 for a latte or $25.00 for a cake at 3 Layers. Does this apply to Sammy's?!?!? Gasoline is gasoline, right? Well if you consider that he would have to sell 8 colts to equal sales revenues of one bottle of average wine (I'm not saying I want wine there - this is just economic reality), maybe it does...

I pay $ 2.50 (or is it $ 2.79?) for a latte or $4.50 for a piece of cake because it is about the going rate.  The coffee is better for not much more that Gate's.  I do not pay more because the place looks cool.  If the prices were much higher than it‘s competition, I would not buy there.  OK, in this case, I would because I like the owners and I want them to succeed and I know it's tough out there.  But still, nothing to do with how fancy the place is.  Not clean?  I have issues.  But if the food, service, etc is good enough, I might look the other way, or, in some cases, try not to look at all.  But still buy there.  The best ribs I have ever had came from a place that I did not want to see....someone else got them for me most of the time.

As far as 8 Colts to get that same revenue as a bottle of wine?  Fancy and clean or plain and just OK, if no one buys that bottle of wine, the owner is better off selling those 8 cans of Colt.

I think the point here is that this is not a cut and dried "if you clean it they will come" issue.  How do you get that balance so all are happy with a store?  Lake has suggested that you may not have to.  Just support the businesses that are there even if you may not actually want to buy there.  Support can be from many different avenues.  Like helping them do better with their current market, even if it doesn't include everybody.  It seems to me that successful businesses of one type can attract other businesses of differing types.

[downtownparks]

It leans towards being honest, and (GASP) giving my opinion.

I believe your theory is flawed, in as much as, no business is going to move here because of our ability to support 6 convenient stores whose main staples are malt beverages and 25cent cakes. Businesses are going to move here initially because someone believes Springfield is place they can grow.

Again, the word "upscale" keeps getting thrown out there. Nobody expects Macys to set up shop on Main St. All most people really want is clean, safe, and inviting. Consistent and reliable service comes in a very close second.

Now, I do agree, there are business models that can survive better in a community like this. Certain types of restaurants and stores that appeal to people across the socioeconomic spectrum.

There really isnt a whole lot of guess work here. There are models to follow.

I personally believe our biggest problem is the lack of immediately usable space. There is almost nowhere on Main St that a Mom and Pop on a shoe string budget could even think about renting and being able to have it up and operating in short order. I think that were that space to exist, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The few businesses that have broken the existing models were isolated.

We keep hearing about all of these businesses that were run out of Springfield, and as a regular to most of them, it really boiled down to four spaces. 9th and Main, Epicurean, The Antique Store, and Boomtown. Several of the others previously listed cohabitated with other listed businesses. Carls and A-Z have been overlooked for years and to be honest, I am not sure why. Chans is an institution that could stand on its own two feet no matter where its located. It has no real interest in working with anyone in the community, because it doesn't have to.

Main St Restaurant didn't open until Boomtown was gone, and by then 9th and Main was in the beginning stages of its death spiral.

TSI didnt open until later, and frankly, almost no one in Springfield knew it existed until it moved to Bay Street. The Pearl, Shanty, and three layers have gotten a lot of support from the community, but they all came way later.

My point is (and I have no doubt it will be whole heartedly disagreed with) the approach to Main Street has never been cohesive, and as Lake has brought up before, there has been very little clustering.

How awesome would it have been to have all of those businesses open up at 1st and Main, near Hola (aka Park View Cafe, Slice of NY, ect, ect), downtown, and FCCJ. Instead of at 6th and Main, 7th and main, and 9th and Main.

[uptowngirl]

UTG. I have been getting my gas there the last few times. Its clean enough, but it feels very thrown together to me, and they are doing the same thing every other convenience store in the neighborhood is. They have two huge open face coolers filled to the brim with singles of every malt beverage you could ask for...

Well....what should they be stocking? I don't think I have seen a convenience store in JAX that does not stock signle malt beverages. Even the Walmart gas shops have three coolers filled with beer..

What should a convenience store stock to be acceptable and accepted by Springfield?

[downtownparks]

Its not whats acceptable or not acceptable. I guess I just wish the were a little less obvious about it. My wifes African Iris' are about the distance it takes to drink 1 beer from the blue front on Laura, and I get tired of pulling cans out of them.

[soxfan]

I don't so much care that the stores carry the singles, that's a staple that they all carry. I don't care for the stores that have the rose tubes, they can get by without a single sale of them. The ones that stock the steel wool scrubber pads right up front are a dead give away also, I don't care what they say, they are supporting the crackheads. I think that for the BP on 8th to survive they have to keep the low lifes out and keep their gas price competetive. They must also promote the fact that they're now open. I live right down the street, literally within walking distance, and I didn't know that they were open yet. As far as the "low lifes" I don't care how anyone interprets this. In my opinion, the " low lifes" are the ones that hang out in front of the stores and ask, relentlessly, for money or a ride or anything. They bother the customers and are disturbing to the more timid. I will not allow my kids to go to the store at 8th and Walnut, eventhough we are only one block away, because of the scum that hangs out there. We will only go there in an emergency. If they were to clean it up, I could use it regularly, but with the work pool right across the street that is not likely to happen.