Eastern Pad/Parcel at Riverfront Plaza; What do you think will go there?

[heights unknown]

Hello all; y'all know where I stand and what I like, but let me tell you what I really think relative to what will go there.

Firstly, ditch the previous renderings from a couple of years ago; you remember; the 17 story mixed use thing. Gateway Moll purchased the pad, and much more will go on that pad.

I was watching an interview, which was 8 months old mind you, that "Mikes on Mic" had with Gateway Moll. Very informative and interesting. But what jogged me specifically was when one of the interviewers tried to steer Moll to another subject (the previous subject was low key about the pad at Riverfront), and Bryan interjected and begged to talk more about the pad. It was more of a hint, nothing definitive mind you, about what could very soon happen, once Phase 2 of Riverfront Plaza is completed, on that pad.

He stated that he, at the time, was talking to a major or luxury Hotel Brand; he didn't or wouldn't say who. But he did say that the project that would be going on to that pad was a 5 star luxury hotel brand, 170 hotel rooms or more, and about 60 condos.

I've learned a lot from you guys while a member of the Jaxson/Metro Jacksonville forum. That pad is very small. If you're dealing with a five star luxury brand hotel, on a very skinny but prime pad/parcel of land on the Riverfront, whatever goes on that pad is not going to be low key, low height, or not luxury; it will be high key, luxurious, and when you're dealing with 5 star luxury brands, on a pad as slender as that, the majority of them demand height, tallness, and with a pad that slender height, and panoramic views on the River will probably be demanded.

Remember, he said 170 hotel rooms, 60 condos, and if you do developer math, you're already looking possibly at a tower the height of 500 feet or more on a pad that slender/small. He also said, "170 hotel rooms or more," which means there could be even more hotel rooms, and, if the condo part/section demands more height for each condo, even more taller.

That interview was 8 months ago. I know these negotiations, liaisons with the hotel brand/brands, etc. with a luxury brand or anyone else takes time; but I believe they should be at the end of wrapping up these negotiations and will be, soon, ready to unveil renderings (architectural) to the public; but not before Phase 2 is near completed or completed.

Don't even think that something boutique or small (like the 17 story rendering) will go on that pad; because of what he said, number of hotel rooms and condos, on a pad that small, it will be big, luxurious, and tall. Am I gunning for something tall? You bet. Such a project would tell Florida and the world, in addition to everything else that's going on downtown and in the Urban Core and Jacksonville as a whole, that Jax is done being small, acting small and playing small; and yes, projects/buildings of this nature do make a statement about a City.

I was looking at a video yesterday of a guy that was really putting Jacksonville down. He put down our size, our appearance, the fact that there's nothing to do, about our skyline not even being commensurate with our population and that we only had two true skyscrapers, and he went on and on and pissed me off more and more. I let him have it, in a nice and respectful way in the comments. I know, we shouldn't care what others say (or think), but just do us and do our business; and, we are beginning to do just that; so let's stop playing and being small, and welcome mega development, new development, meaningful development to let the world know that Jax has arrived. When I first joined this forum/site way back when, someone told me (I already knew) that skyscrapers didn't mean a thing, and that people made cities not buildings, and they were right and on point; but back then almost nothing was going on in Jax, whole buildings, blocks, etc. were being demolished and without any plan to refill or rebuild them. Fast forward to now. Jax, and yes downtown/urban core has a lot going on, finally. So let's yes start and continue building, enhancing more density in the core, and yes building those high rises and tall's in the downtown/urban core. It won't hurt us, it will only help us.

Let's stop and quit being small, thinking small, and acting small!

Lastly, what do YOU think relative to what could go on that pad? Bryan has, in many ways and interviews, stated that the previous rendering is moot, and something more meaningful and mind blowing will go on that pad. Get ready for a surprise Jax!

[jaxlongtimer]

With all due respect to Gateway, I think the pad should be incorporated into the park plans on that site.  Any significant building will look "forced", squeezed between the Wells Fargo/Independent Life tower and the Main Street Bridge and be out of scale/overbearing with the park at its base.  Just awkward. 

We need to not develop just for the sake of doing so.  Quality development needs to be at play and Jax is not good at that due to a lack of planning, vision and discipline.

Gateway could build a tower set back more on other properties and it would do just as well, if not better.  How about on the parking lot next to the Omni/Marriott?  It would have nearly unobstructed views of the river and be more centrally located.  Maybe on a little larger lot, too, to give them more to work with.

Time for Jax to take charge of development, not be reactive to anyone with a few dollars and grand plans (no offense to Gateway here, this is a generic take).

[Tacachale]

We're all skeptical of renderings (with good cause) but Gateway is one company that's pretty much doing what they say. In fact we've had multiple projects from them at DDRB making changes where the changes are *better* than before. The Landimg project will certainly be a tower, I expect a pretty nice one, and it isn't going to detract from the park. I mean, you'd be hard pressed to detract from the empty lawn that was there for years, but now that there's real activity there it'll only make it better. It'll be adding amenities the park really needs as well as providing long term funding for maintenance of The whole thing. A solid win overall.

[Skybox111]

Afraid not looks like they have to stay at 17 stories or renegotiate with dia for changes but they could given things may have changed in their sights. Would love for more high rise density maybe all over brooklyn and lavilla and cathedral district. There is not alot of areas in the core to build high rises Maybe state and union but the core is pretty filled in. Maybe the business district with those parking lots but then owned by landlords and tenants in those buildings so. And maybe all of the southbank and brooklyn except half of brooklyn is cut down the middle is for low rise on one side and tall on the other and problem is last piece of property for towers would be ymca lot and fleet landing the rest is for headquarter parking lots so not can be built and cathedral takes up alot of land so big squeeze on bay street where few parcels can be built. Boston and many other cities have highrises around historic buildings doesn't hurt anything many people just want shopping food and activities and tourists would build up more with that density full night life and not big historic districts of low rise with quiet sleepy life especially when lavilla is sitting next to a major highway where everyone would be going through with a lot of traffic for the rest of downtown and stadium district so be noisy and busy. Just like miami as well highrises and parks integrated with each other and being very busy. People aren't caring whats above them just whats at eye level shops restaurants look across the river bank at the other skyline.

[Zac T]

Afraid not looks like they have to stay at 17 stories or renegotiate with dia for changes but they could given things may have changed in their sights.

Correct, part of the agreement with the DIA was that the tower would be no more than 17 stories. Gateway has previously indicated 11 floors of residences and 5 floors for the hotel

[heights unknown]

Afraid not looks like they have to stay at 17 stories or renegotiate with dia for changes but they could given things may have changed in their sights.

Correct, part of the agreement with the DIA was that the tower would be no more than 17 stories. Gateway has previously indicated 11 floors of residences and 5 floors for the hotel

Could 16 or 17 stories accommodate 170 hotel rooms and 60 to 70 condo's for a five star luxury hotel/condo? Looks like they've re-negotiated. If 17 stories were still germane, those hotel rooms would have to be very small (or reduced in number), and the condo's smaller as well; and for a prime riverfront parcel like that, I don't think that's the case.