New Ford on Bay RFP

[heights unknown]

I hate how we are parceling this property out like a suburban development. Just feel like there will be zero continuity across parcels.

You mean "hodgepodge" rather than planned, continuous, and consonant development on par with other parcels and the areas as a whole (thought out).

[Jax_Developer]

Jax is so close to having an actual night life scene for younger crowds. You have several hundred feet of frontage to flank Decca & Myth. Agreed with others that splitting this up for these proposed uses doesn't make sense. It will just overshadow the organic nightclubs literally across the street. Why not grow that? All for a big player like the Culinary School but I'm sure there are other great opportunities for them in literally every direction. It doesn't need to be in the only block that has any nightlife DT.

[CityLife]

Jax is so close to having an actual night life scene for younger crowds. You have several hundred feet of frontage to flank Decca & Myth. Agreed with others that splitting this up for these proposed uses doesn't make sense. It will just overshadow the organic nightclubs literally across the street. Why not grow that? All for a big player like the Culinary School but I'm sure there are other great opportunities for them in literally every direction. It doesn't need to be in the only block that has any nightlife DT.

I have been saying for maybe 15 years now, that COJ should make Bay Street one way in each direction and allow businesses to expand outdoor seating into the right-of-way. The r-o-w is huge, so there should be an opportunity make a truly awesome area. Everything on the south side of Bay that gets redeveloped should be required to have commercial spaces fronting onto Bay Street, and with that new outdoor seating area they would be foolish not to. I would also close down Bay Street from Main/Ocean to Liberty every Art Walk and Special Event at minimum, and would probably do so on weekends too. You can still get to the Hyatt/Ford on Bay from Independent Drive and everyone else can use Forsyth or Adams to go east/west, so that isn't an issue. The only hinderance to this idea is that little sprinter van that carries 40 passengers a day...

You don't need a synthetic entertainment district near the stadium or Gateway. You have it right here, and its next to the Florida Theater, JCPA, hotels, waterfront parks and is only a short walk to the sports district.

Clematis Street in WPB or Atlantic Avenue in Delray do not have nearly as much r-o-w to work with compared to Bay Street, but still have enough to create  awesome dining/entertainment districts. WPB closes Clematis down every weekend for their farmers market and also for special events and so does Delray.

Doing something like this is far and away the biggest no brainer to me in Downtown Jax

Atlantic Avenue-Delray


Clematis during WPB Farmers Market, which extends to the waterfront parks


Most restaurants outdoor seating is on the street side of sidewalk on Clematis

[thelakelander]

^Something having a real master plan and following it would easily reveal.

[jaxlongtimer]

FLASHBACK to 2005: For the Super Bowl, the Main Street bridge and Bay Street from Main to the Stadium were closed to traffic during the week.  Bay Street was lined with street vendors. Musicians played on the Shipyard's property on a large stage. Activity was also at the Landing and the Baseball Grounds along with the NFL experience where Rivers Edge is going.

Pedestrian traffic all week from Friendship Park and Rivers Edge to the Landing and the Stadium was wall to wall.

On weekends, it would cost the City a few police to close off the Main Street Bridge and Bay Street and create a popup street festival, to bring back even a piece of Super Bowl week.  Where is DVI and DIA to promote such simple steps?

I note that major cities such as Tokyo and NYC now close major throughfares on weekends, or even permanently, to create such pedestrian opportunities.

Simple, low cost, easy to implement.  But, again, Jax has no vision (despite the "vision" name in DVI) or creative thoughts on how to do something unless it involves millions of dollars in "incentives."  Small and easy projects just aren't sexy enough or ego satisfying.

[fsu813]

On weekends, it would cost the City a few police to close off the Main Street Bridge and Bay Street and create a popup street festival, to bring back even a piece of Super Bowl week.  Where is DVI and DIA to promote such simple steps?

I note that major cities such as Tokyo and NYC now close major throughfares on weekends, or even permanently, to create such pedestrian opportunities.

Simple, low cost, easy to implement.  But, again, Jax has no vision (despite the "vision" name in DVI) or creative thoughts on how to do something unless it involves millions of dollars in "incentives."  Small and easy projects just aren't sexy enough or ego satisfying.

Those closures for a (hopefully) large event aren't as easy/cheap as they once were. Just in the past few years, the requirements and costs charged by JSO have skyrocketed. So much so, that legislation has been explored that would help curb costs to non-profits who host large events.

[Nmhatt]

I have been saying for maybe 15 years now, that COJ should make Bay Street one way in each direction and allow businesses to expand outdoor seating into the right-of-way. The r-o-w is huge, so there should be an opportunity make a truly awesome area. Everything on the south side of Bay that gets redeveloped should be required to have commercial spaces fronting onto Bay Street, and with that new outdoor seating area they would be foolish not to. I would also close down Bay Street from Main/Ocean to Liberty every Art Walk and Special Event at minimum, and would probably do so on weekends too. You can still get to the Hyatt/Ford on Bay from Independent Drive and everyone else can use Forsyth or Adams to go east/west, so that isn't an issue. The only hinderance to this idea is that little sprinter van that carries 40 passengers a day...

I'm just going to put this out there: even if you did a road diet to facilitate outdoor seating, community markets, and similar uses, you could still include a Skyway expansion down Bay Street as part of that plan. If you spend any time on Hogan Street, you'll notice there is a lot of space on the side of the street where the Skyway runs. The underside of the elevated track would be a great place for what you're describing, and it would also address your sprinter van comment.

[CityLife]

On weekends, it would cost the City a few police to close off the Main Street Bridge and Bay Street and create a popup street festival, to bring back even a piece of Super Bowl week.  Where is DVI and DIA to promote such simple steps?

I note that major cities such as Tokyo and NYC now close major throughfares on weekends, or even permanently, to create such pedestrian opportunities.

Simple, low cost, easy to implement.  But, again, Jax has no vision (despite the "vision" name in DVI) or creative thoughts on how to do something unless it involves millions of dollars in "incentives."  Small and easy projects just aren't sexy enough or ego satisfying.

Those closures for a (hopefully) large event aren't as easy/cheap as they once were. Just in the past few years, the requirements and costs charged by JSO have skyrocketed. So much so, that legislation has been explored that would help curb costs to non-profits who host large events.

That likely relates to the cost of hiring off-duty officers for events that aren't City-sponsored.

For special events, many cities don't rely solely on off-duty details. They reallocate on-duty personnel, adjust schedules, and use overtime, as needed. The city I work in, runs a monthly concert series using a mix of schedule adjustments and OT. It's a priority from the administration to have coverage there, so it's easy to for the PD to make it happen.

COJ/DIA should be able to allocate officers to support events if there's a clear public benefit and a push from the administration. With around 2k officers, it shouldn't be that hard to get five or so officers to cover the closure of Bay Street for occasional special events.

Jax obviously has serious crime issues to deal with all over town, but with the amount of money being invested into Downtown, imo, the City should be re-allocating extra police downtown anyways. Especially with all of the businesses threatening to leave and asking for retention incentives.

[CityLife]

I have been saying for maybe 15 years now, that COJ should make Bay Street one way in each direction and allow businesses to expand outdoor seating into the right-of-way. The r-o-w is huge, so there should be an opportunity make a truly awesome area. Everything on the south side of Bay that gets redeveloped should be required to have commercial spaces fronting onto Bay Street, and with that new outdoor seating area they would be foolish not to. I would also close down Bay Street from Main/Ocean to Liberty every Art Walk and Special Event at minimum, and would probably do so on weekends too. You can still get to the Hyatt/Ford on Bay from Independent Drive and everyone else can use Forsyth or Adams to go east/west, so that isn't an issue. The only hinderance to this idea is that little sprinter van that carries 40 passengers a day...

I'm just going to put this out there: even if you did a road diet to facilitate outdoor seating, community markets, and similar uses, you could still include a Skyway expansion down Bay Street as part of that plan. If you spend any time on Hogan Street, you'll notice there is a lot of space on the side of the street where the Skyway runs. The underside of the elevated track would be a great place for what you're describing, and it would also address your sprinter van comment.

While I don't think the street would be as attractive, since a big plus of the road diet is the opportunity to add shade trees and expanded outdoor seating on the north side of Bay; it would still create a unique setting there and the Bay to stadium Skyway extension should have always been the move over U2C.

Right now, Bay is around 50' across from curb to curb, so there is room to take it down to 2 lanes and have the Skyway there. It just limits the potential for outdoor seating and landscaping, which is a trade-off that may be worth it for the benefits of the Skyway expansion.

Like Lake said, sure would be nice to have a good Downtown Master Plan to lean on. There is one from 2023 that had an opportunity to suggest improvements to Bay Street (see pages 21-23 below). Everything on Bay Street is focused on the "Bay Street Innovation Corridor"...

https://dia.jacksonville.gov/getattachment/dea6c0e6-f9f4-4436-beee-d1cb48608e7e/DIA-Downtown-Master-Plan-Summary_Web.pdf?lang=en-US

[jcjohnpaint]

I'm afraid, without a proper Masterplan, the city is going to cut incentives.

[jaxlongtimer]

On weekends, it would cost the City a few police to close off the Main Street Bridge and Bay Street and create a popup street festival, to bring back even a piece of Super Bowl week.  Where is DVI and DIA to promote such simple steps?

I note that major cities such as Tokyo and NYC now close major throughfares on weekends, or even permanently, to create such pedestrian opportunities.

Simple, low cost, easy to implement.  But, again, Jax has no vision (despite the "vision" name in DVI) or creative thoughts on how to do something unless it involves millions of dollars in "incentives."  Small and easy projects just aren't sexy enough or ego satisfying.

Those closures for a (hopefully) large event aren't as easy/cheap as they once were. Just in the past few years, the requirements and costs charged by JSO have skyrocketed. So much so, that legislation has been explored that would help curb costs to non-profits who host large events.

Who do you think pays for the army of police for Jaguar game days?  Not the Jags.

There should be a dedicated group of police assigned to the urban core for special events and to act as a show of force to convey a safe environment, etc.  (I can add that when attending shows downtown, it can take 30 to 45 minutes or more for traffic to clear the traffic lights to exit the area.  Not one cop for just an hour to control a light to move traffic out faster.) 

The cost of cops would be a mere fraction of the interest on the hundreds of millions in incentives the City is doling out to developers and would go much further to boosting the popularity of Downtown.  But, City leaders don't make such comparisons before throwing away taxpayer dollars.  You can bet private businesses compare ROI in allocating their investment dollars.