Lot J - 5 Years Later

[Tacachale]

The Panthers deal (which is probably closer to what we could have ended up with, being a renovation and not a new stadium like everything on your list) is a lot worse than we got: $800M with an 80/20 public/private split, and not even getting a roof for the trouble.

It's also worth noting that the initial stadium proposals in 2023 had proposed bundling Lot J into the renovations, and that at least would have been a $75-100 million city investment in a $500-668 million project, but with (seemingly) no community benefits agreement and a larger share paid on the stadium itself, while also expecting to bundle the UF campus into it. I really hesitate to say that either that or taking the deal in 2021 would have been a better deal than where we are today. I recognize that the parking agreement and credits aren't ideal but I still think they appear to beat the reasonably likely alternatives, especially on top of resetting the overall relationship.

Yeah, the Panthers deal and all the others are pretty clearly worse than ours. On the entertainment district, once the mayor took office we pushed for an even split for the each of stadium and the district in no small part that's because of what had happened with Lot J. It was a good thing too, as the whole deal was so complicated that the district was made separate. It was a good thing too; otherwise we'd be in a situation where we spent $900 million on a stadium to be in the same spot.

[Tacachale]

I've been in Atlanta for the last few days, staying near the Battery. For those that don't know, the Battery is a Cordish-anchored development adjacent to the Atlanta Brave's Truist Park, very similar to what was proposed at Lot J. Seeing how vibrant the Battery is, around the clock, even months removed from the baseball season, has gotten me thinking back to Lot J again, and what it could have brought to the sports district.

It's been a minute, so to refresh memories, Lot J would have included:

- A 100,000 square foot Live! Arena with bars and restaurants.
- Two midrise apartment blocks with of 350-400 units
- A 120-room hotel
- 35,000 square feet of office space
- 75,000 square feet of additional retail
- 1,200 (badly needed) parking spots, 600 of which were structured garage

Here's a flyover of what the final proposal looked like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfXQvr4QsJg

I'll spare the intricate details of the financing and the controversial "bread box loan," but all in, the city of Jacksonville would have been responsible for $233 million of the $450 million project, which Cordish and the Jags would fully operate and manage.

Lot J was expected to fly through City Council, with unanimous approval. It only needed a 13-6 supermajority vote to go forward; it ended up one vote short, at 12-7, after one of the uglier political seasons in recent Jacksonville history.

My opinion only, but if the exact same plan had been voted on tomorrow, away from the taint of the JEA scandal, away from the bullying of the Curry administration, away from the unwarranted fears of Jags relocation, away from hard feelings about the Landing, and away from the disastrous 2019 Jags season that left little goodwill toward the team, it would be passed unanimously.

Wondering, with five years perspective, did the city drop the ball on Lot J?

My strong opinion is yes, we did. At the time, I thought it was a sweetheart deal for the Jags, but a necessary evil given the need for a sports & entertainment district to anchor the sports complex. Five years later, I think it might have been one of the bigger missed opportunities in city history.

For $233 million - a lot of money, no doubt - the city could have had a turnkey destination to bring the entire sports district to life. Cordish has a strong track record of bringing in and retaining quality tenants, and programming the Live! district to ensure 365 day a year vibrancy. By this time next year, construction would have been complete, and along with the new stadium, we'd have an event district ready to go to attract festivals, large sports events, and concerts. It wouldn't have been competitive with the downtown core, but additive (no one is walking out of a concert at the sports complex and heading to Laura Street for a drink), and would have sparked additional development as it rose. Further, it would have provided a parking solution across Bay Street for Shipyards West and MOSH.

Thrilled with all the new development, but we are standing up a $2 billion+ sports district right now with no complementing infrastructure to draw events or boost return. A 120-room Four Seasons and high-end restaurant are not a solution, and we're hanging that whole district, and all that investment, out to dry if we're relying on food trucks at Met Park and some small restaurants facing the river across Bay Street to provide pre and post game vibrancy.

Unpopular opinion, but I'd re-engage both the Jags and Cordish, under the new administration, to see if there was an avenue to reopen Lot J talks. It's in everyone's best interest to get moving on this fast. I can't see a universe where the ROI isn't there for the city long-term from a parking, festival, event, and vibrancy perspective. I fear we're going to sit on a solution far too long, resulting in unending construction adjacent to the new stadium, or we're going to go too small with a scaled down development that lacks the critical mass and managed service of the original plan.

I don't disagree that the amenities would be nice to have — but the crazy way the Lot J deal was structured, there'd be a lot of other things we couldn't have paid for if we were carrying the bag on that. Stuff with more impact than a smaller but much more expensive version of the Sleiman Landing proposals.

[Jankelope]

I do think you will get an updated Lot J type proposal probably this year or next right? Surely that is still the ultimate plan.

[jaxlongtimer]

Intuition Ale Works closing.  So much for the vibrancy of the Stadium district.  Until there is an infill link to a vibrant North Core, I have a hard time seeing how the Stadium district supports nightlife on its own.  One possible exception might be if it hosted the convention center and then, still a big "if."

As an aside, anyone know how the Doro apartments are doing there?

Intuition Ale Works calls it quits after 15 years serving up craft suds in Jacksonville

One of Jacksonville's oldest and most visible craft breweries announced its pending closure on Jan. 28.

Intuition Ale Works owner Ben Davis posted a message to social media that the 15-year-old local brewer would shut down for good on April 24. This follows an unsuccessful nine-month search by Davis to sell Intuition's tap room, production facility and adjacent Bier Hall entertainment venue.

The brewery, originally launched at the former King Street Brewery location in Riverside, moved downtown in 2016 after outgrowing its original location. The closure will mean the loss of a significant downtown Jacksonville destination and continues a significant decline of small breweries in Northeast Florida....

....Davis posted that the team "examined every realistic path forward, hoping the right buyer would emerge with the resources and conviction to carry the brand into its next chapter," but "the right buyer never came."....

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2026/01/28/intuition-closing.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=BN&utm_content=JA&ana=e_JA_BN&j=43788826&senddate=2026-01-28

[acme54321]

Ben Davis called out flashy renderings without anything to show for it as part of the reason they are shutting down.

[fsu813]

The importance of clustering and complimentary uses can't be overstated. Islands of activity are just hard to sustain.

[Tacachale]

I do think you will get an updated Lot J type proposal probably this year or next right? Surely that is still the ultimate plan.

I don't have any specifics on the time frame, unfortunately, but I can confirm it's something both sides do want it to happen.

[Tacachale]

As an aside, anyone know how the Doro apartments are doing there?

The final legislation for Doro passed City Council on 1-13-2025 so it'll be moving forward again soon.

[copperfiend]

Sucks that Intuition is closing. That space will sit empty for a while.

I am sure Dailys Place being closed for 2.5 years, no FL-GA game for two years, no Jaguars home games for nearly two years is not appealing for anyone looking at that space.

[Charles Hunter]

As an aside, anyone know how the Doro apartments are doing there?

The final legislation for Doro passed City Council on 1-13-2025 so it'll be moving forward again soon.

ActionNews had a story tonight commemorating the 2nd anniversary of the Doro fire (it does not seem to be on their website). In the story, they said tenants will be moving in in early February. Now, I don't know if they were confused as 'early February' was when people were supposed to move in pre-fire ...

[Ken_FSU]

As an aside, anyone know how the Doro apartments are doing there?

The final legislation for Doro passed City Council on 1-13-2025 so it'll be moving forward again soon.

ActionNews had a story tonight commemorating the 2nd anniversary of the Doro fire (it does not seem to be on their website). In the story, they said tenants will be moving in in early February. Now, I don't know if they were confused as 'early February' was when people were supposed to move in pre-fire ...

Doro is largely done, minus some fit and finish.

Residents begin moving in on Feb 6th.

[blizz01]

Well, they won't be frequenting Intuition....

[jaxlongtimer]

As an aside, anyone know how the Doro apartments are doing there?

The final legislation for Doro passed City Council on 1-13-2025 so it'll be moving forward again soon.

ActionNews had a story tonight commemorating the 2nd anniversary of the Doro fire (it does not seem to be on their website). In the story, they said tenants will be moving in in early February. Now, I don't know if they were confused as 'early February' was when people were supposed to move in pre-fire ...

Doro is largely done, minus some fit and finish.

Residents begin moving in on Feb 6th.

So, how fast are they renting up?  Ahead, behind, about on target for projections?  Apartment market is generally soft right now.  How can the Doro compete with so many, in my opinion, better options?  Gateway, by itself, would top this if rents are competitive.  Southbank/San Marco, Brooklyn/Riverside... endless possibilities.

As noted, with the Stadium, Daily's, Mosh, Intuition, etc. being down and out for the foreseeable future, what's the attraction for living in that spot and to pay a premium rent?  As noted before, the window view of the multistory garage isn't ideal either.  I can't imagine going out for an errand or date, fighting stadium or arena traffic.  (Would have to post an event schedule on the refrigerator door to keep up with that.)

[Charles Hunter]

<<snip>>
As noted, with the Stadium, Daily's, Mosh, Intuition, etc. being down and out for the foreseeable future, what's the attraction for living in that spot and to pay a premium rent?  As noted before, the window view of the multistory garage isn't ideal either.  I can't imagine going out for an errand or date, fighting stadium or arena traffic.  (Would have to post an event schedule on the refrigerator door to keep up with that.)

Simple, everyone living in Doro will attend each and every event held at the Sports Complex venues. There will be no need for them to go anywhere else!   [CH removes tongue from cheek]

[fsu813]

<<snip>>
As noted, with the Stadium, Daily's, Mosh, Intuition, etc. being down and out for the foreseeable future, what's the attraction for living in that spot and to pay a premium rent?  As noted before, the window view of the multistory garage isn't ideal either.  I can't imagine going out for an errand or date, fighting stadium or arena traffic.  (Would have to post an event schedule on the refrigerator door to keep up with that.)

Simple, everyone living in Doro will attend each and every event held at the Sports Complex venues. There will be no need for them to go anywhere else!   [CH removes tongue from cheek]

Its close to all the venues on Bay Street, Manifest, arena, ball park, riverfront parks, and all the typical stuff people would move to Downtown Jax for.