Land swap - best deal on the table - Or not....

[thelakelander]

To play devil's advocate regarding urban parks. Most great urban parks in the US are not on any waterbody, including in cities where there is a lot of water. Chicago is probably the outlier with Grant Park and Lincoln Park, but even in those parks most of the focal points are not near the lake.

A lot of the parks below would be in the top 10 best urban parks in the USA and are all largely landlocked.

-Central Park and Prospect Park in NYC
-Boston Common
-Griffith Park in LA
-Golden Gate Park-Funny enough it has ocean frontage, but that is one of the least active parts of the park
-Balboa Park in San Diego
-Forsyth Park in Savannah
-Discovery Green in Houston
-Patterson Park in Baltimore
-Audobon Park in New Orleans-is mostly cutoff from the river by a railroad track
-Forest Park in St. Louis
-Centennial Park in Nashville

Springfield's chain of parks could easily be the City's great urban park, but the City unfortunately either gave away adjacent land or didn't ever acquire enough to create a truly great park. There is barely enough width to do anything in it. Ideally it would have room for a couple baseball/softball fields, multiple basketball courts, flex fields for football/soccer, tennis courts, skate park, a swimming complex, 9 hole golf course, amphitheater, and so on. Piedmont Park in Atlanta is around 190 acres and has 12 tennis courts, two softball/baseball fields, two soccer fields, two beach volleyball courts, and a swimming center, and still has acres and acres of open space and trails. It's a bummer that Springfield's park's aren't big enough to do even do 1/3rd of that.

The funny thing is Springfield Park....or the chain of parks along Hogans Creek currently offer what no other park in the downtown core does, in terms of these amenities all being in one connected urban green space.

2 children's playground/tot lot
2 basketball court
2 tennis courts
1 public swimming pool (once had two but white pool filled in instead of embracing integration)
1 disc golf
1 baseball field
1 miniature golf course (long closed)
1 dog park

Thats a strong collection of existing recreational amenities to begin with and that can be added to. In addition, it actually has a decent "outer square" to playaround with. Something most of the riverfront parks planned east of Hyatt/Berkman lack. Definitely an undervalued and largely overlooked space with the downtown parks crowd.

[Jankelope]

I think that park just needs a lot of refreshing. It has the bones but I think needs some investment to make it up to modern standards.

[Jax_Developer]

I think that park just needs a lot of refreshing. It has the bones but I think needs some investment to make it up to modern standards.

Very much agree.

[acme54321]

I think that park just needs a lot of refreshing. It has the bones but I think needs some investment to make it up to modern standards.

Some investment is an understatement.  It needs like $100m  .

[CityLife]

Quick photos of Piedmont Park's recreational amenities. It has has 18 tennis courts, 5 pickleball courts and a tennis center with bathrooms, locker rooms, concessions, etc. Springfield has 2 courts with no shade structure or restroom.



It has two full softball, two soccer/flex fields, and two sand volleyball courts all near each other. They do adult kickball, softball, and soccer leagues there and I'm sure also do youth activities.  Klutho has a poorly maintained softball field with no fence that I believe is rarely ever used. Maybe only for the 4th of July game?





The pool near the Springfield parks feels cutoff from the rest of the park and is dated and poorly maintained. The Piedmont swimming center has four full swimming lanes and then a massive play area with zero entry. It also has a beautiful bathhouse.



There is not room to do anything like this in the Springfield chain of parks, but the City could at least fund a portion of the Hogan's Creek Master Plan, which was completed in 2010. Ideally focused on the active/recreational components of the plan.

https://www.groundworkjacksonville.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Hogans-Creek-Masterplan_032410.pdf

What is also crazy is just how close the park is to Downtown. It's essentially an extension of Downtown as much as it's part of Springfield. It's roughly 1/3rd of a mile from Springfield Park to JWJ Park. It's less than a quarter mile from Gateway. It's only about .6 miles to the Old Landing and the same to the Shipyards. It could have easily been as big of a catalyst for redeveloping downtown as the riverfront parks projects, imo.

[thelakelander]

Oh I wasn't making a comparison in the scale of Springfield Park with the scale of larger parks in cities historically 3-5 times our size. I've been to Piedmont Park plenty of times over the decade, as well as many others across the country. It's a great park.

I was talking about to taking advantage of Springfield Park's historic purpose and role as Jax's "central park" and better maximizing the recreational assets already there.

Funny thing about the park is that downtown was a border at one time. 1960s/70s urban renewal along the State/Union corridor and Hansontown have severed that seamless connectivity. However, some good urban infill can restore that!

[jaxlongtimer]

I do think City Life demonstrates the limitations of park amenities available to the Downtown core due to inadequate acreage.  This is a point I have been making for a long time.  We just can't meet all the possible requests for recreation, outdoor entertainment, etc. with the "100 acres or less" spread across a Downtown from the stadium to Brooklyn.  This makes every acre we have all the more precious. 

It is highly unlikely that if the City continues to grow and Downtown actually "takes off" that we could ever reclaim for public space the land we are currently so anxious to pay developers to take off our hands.

This lack of future-thinking is a big Achilles heal for Downtown in my opinion.  And, pair that with the aforementioned lack of urban mass transit and there is an absolute cap on Downtown's potential.

[Tacachale]

We have a ton of park space in Downtown without having to turn every city-owned parcel into more. What we haven't had in a long time in consistently activated and maintained spaces. The Springfield Park chain is a great example. It's no more remote from the Downtown Jax core than Boston Common is from Downtown Boston or the Charleston waterfront is from the center of their downtown. Fixing that up is a long term project, but it would have more impact than if we kept all of the 12 blocks of waterfront land that existed just a few years ago as permanent parks. As has been noted, the Landing site will be a substantial net gain of park space from what we have now, plus thanks to this deal it'll have a revenue source to keep it up.

[thelakelander]

We also have plenty of parks on the fringe of downtown in adjacent neighborhoods. A big point of the Emerald Trail project is to connect them.

[CityLife]

There is a seemingly feasible long term solution to the size limitations of the Springfield Parks and the land is all owned by the Jacksonville Housing Authority. Centennial Townhomes West is owned and operated by the JHA. It's 7.69 acres and is immediately next to Klutho Park. The complex was built in 1977 and has likely reached the end of it's life. Then to the west of that you have Blodgett Villas, which is on 17.73 acres and is also owned by the JHA. The complex was built in the early 90's and presumably still has some life left. Between both of those complexes is the JHA HQ which is 9.56 acres. In total, this is 34.98 acres. Nearly equal to the rest of the chain of parks. But that's not it. South of Blodgett is a nice 5.5 acre lake/retention pond that is part of the state complex. I'm sure COJ could agree to take on maintenance from the state if it was included in the park, so you really could add 40 acres to the park.

The City could start planning for the future and expand the park in phases. Centennial more immediately and Blodgett in the future. This would not only expand the park, but provide the necessary width to add more recreational amenities to the park. If you add all this land and simply remove Broad and Jefferson between 6th and 1st, there would be 58 acres of connected parks space uninterrupted by roads.

The City gets so much money yearly from the federal government for the CDBG program that it could likely fund a lot of this project that way. The city could also increase the maximum residential height and density on the edges of the park (away from the historic district) and make a killing off the increase of ad valorem taxes. To make this happen, COJ just has to find a new HQ for the JHA and rebuild affordable housing nearby to replace the two lost projects.

This is obviously putting the cart before the horse, as the first priority should actually upgrading the existing system. However, I think if there is a long term expansion plan and the opportunity to create a truly great park, it might make renovating the existing system a higher priority and more financially viable.

[thelakelander]

^That entire area that was once Sugar Hill and Hansontown, stretching from UF Health Jax, down to State and Union between I-95 and Hogans Creek/Main Street, should be looked at. Its an excellent opportunity for Springfield Park and packing in some density on the edge of downtown. It fills a gapping hole in the urban core and the land is so underutilized, you won't get the type of neighborhood opposition that would be present in historic neighborhoods that still exist.

[CityLife]

Agreed Lake. And the land acquisition cost should make it all very feasible financially.

Ideally, the entire 30 acre state complex would also get redeveloped in the future. You know, the one that has the transportation planning agency for the metro area in a one story suburban building with surface parking that is behind a fence and closing gate....

[Charles Hunter]

Agreed Lake. And the land acquisition cost should make it all very feasible financially.

Ideally, the entire 30 acre state complex would also get redeveloped in the future. You know, the one that has the transportation planning agency for the metro area in a one story suburban building with surface parking that is behind a fence and closing gate....

Of course, the TPO isn't the only state agency in the complex. Some of the others are the Department of Revenue, Corrections/Probation, Agency for Health Care Administration, Law Enforcement (FDLE), and Childrens Medical Services.

[fsu813]

There is a seemingly feasible long term solution to the size limitations of the Springfield Parks and the land is all owned by the Jacksonville Housing Authority. Centennial Townhomes West is owned and operated by the JHA. It's 7.69 acres and is immediately next to Klutho Park. The complex was built in 1977 and has likely reached the end of it's life. Then to the west of that you have Blodgett Villas, which is on 17.73 acres and is also owned by the JHA. The complex was built in the early 90's and presumably still has some life left. Between both of those complexes is the JHA HQ which is 9.56 acres. In total, this is 34.98 acres. Nearly equal to the rest of the chain of parks. But that's not it. South of Blodgett is a nice 5.5 acre lake/retention pond that is part of the state complex. I'm sure COJ could agree to take on maintenance from the state if it was included in the park, so you really could add 40 acres to the park.

The City could start planning for the future and expand the park in phases. Centennial more immediately and Blodgett in the future. This would not only expand the park, but provide the necessary width to add more recreational amenities to the park. If you add all this land and simply remove Broad and Jefferson between 6th and 1st, there would be 58 acres of connected parks space uninterrupted by roads.

The City gets so much money yearly from the federal government for the CDBG program that it could likely fund a lot of this project that way. The city could also increase the maximum residential height and density on the edges of the park (away from the historic district) and make a killing off the increase of ad valorem taxes. To make this happen, COJ just has to find a new HQ for the JHA and rebuild affordable housing nearby to replace the two lost projects.

This is obviously putting the cart before the horse, as the first priority should actually upgrading the existing system. However, I think if there is a long term expansion plan and the opportunity to create a truly great park, it might make renovating the existing system a higher priority and more financially viable.

Also a sizeable Department of Health complex (with a large, mostly empty parking lot) directly abutting the parks between 6th-8th.

[jaxlongtimer]

Wonder if all those State offices could fit in the recently vacated JEA building complex?  Would boost Downtown and add green space to the park  .