City unveils Jaguars stadium plan

[Jax_Developer]

Looks like a comparison has finally emerged.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/charlotte-leaders-consider-650m-toward-bank-america-stadium-renovations/3YV645GZXVHHLBRDLDHD5N7KBM/

Charlotte is now considering $650 million in renovations to Bank of America Stadium, to which the owners of the Carolina Panthers would add $150 million and then take on overruns and maintenance costs with a 20-year lease extension. It is unclear if there is a community benefits agreement. Their timeline is much faster for consideration, with a City Council vote expected on June 24th.

Charlotte passed their stadium deal the day before Jacksonville and I feel relieved that we got such a better deal in comparison. We didn't get everything that might have been liked but Shad Khan is at least putting real money in unlike David Tepper, with a longer lease term and better relocation protection. Things could have been much worse.

Hopefully this means Jax can now turn to other priorities (like again, passing the rest of the CBA). Housing, transit, healthcare, education, libraries, infrastructure like sewers, the jail, whatever is going to be done with the Prime Osborn.

Haven't really done much of a deep dive into either deal, but I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison.

-Charlotte is spending $650 million, with the Panthers spending $150 million on construction. The Panthers are on the hook for cost overruns and maintenance over the next 20 years, which is estimated at $421 million.

-Tepper also owns and brought MLS expansion team Charlotte FC to the city. They play 17 home games and average 36k per game, so they bring in additional "convention center funding", which Charlotte charges on every hotel room and bar tab/restaurant bill in the city. These are the funds Charlotte is using to pay for the improvements with. 

-Tepper has spent $117 million in improvements to the stadium since 2018 and $381 million on MLS expansion for Charlotte FC, plus a health performance park, Charlotte FC's HQ and practice facility.

-A component of their construction project is creating a "park-like atmosphere outside the stadium with big LED screens that can be used for watch parties.

Yeah Marcus, as Citylife details, the Charlotte stadium services their FC team also. Moreover, the Charlotte deal is a near 50/50 split over the 20 year period. $688M from TSE from 2018-2045 vs. $650M from Charlotte from 2025-2029. When you factor when funds were spent, the city of Charlotte is still paying near a 50/50 split for a multi-purpose arena. TSE owns their stadium.

Charlotte, to my knowledge, also has no major obligation for major expenses as well. Meaning, the city doesn't pay more than few million a year for their obligations to keep things going. The Jags, like several other smaller-market stadiums, outlay a significant amount annually for their operations. In fact, their council members have bragged about that component of the deal.

The headlines looks way more "crazy" than the actual deal.. contrast that with Jacksonville's reporting... in which the majority of the population sill thinks this is a 50/50 or 55/45 deal still. It's not.

(Also Khan didn't walk into a dumpster fire a few years ago, he's had the team for a bit).

[Tacachale]

Charlotte's deal is obviously lopsided and it's for a stadium the taxpayers don't own. The rest of the team's money is coming over 20 years so the number isn't as big as it sounds in 2024 dollars. Just kind of the nature of the game at this point. Jax obviously got the better deal, and in a smaller market.

[Jax_Developer]

My only real issue with the bill now are the additional terms. If the deal terms started & ended (with a few tweaks) to the general outline provided a few weeks back, I would completely agree with you Tacachale.

I have serious concern with the additional terms that were put in there. I primarily work with land out of everything else & the terms surrounding the parking quotas, the Jags "credit" & who gets what revenue have some serious cause for concern. Ultimately, it's on the Jags to make right by this agreement above all else, because most of the agreement gives them the right to act.

I appreciate your work like I have said before. I wish the citizens, council, whatever, had the ability to meaningfully request adjustments to the agreement. We should be able to ask for more than the Mayor, respectfully. The focus on the CBA was very disheartening to me, after reading through the agreement's entirety. I believe some aspects have loopholes.

[marcuscnelson]

Charlotte's deal is obviously lopsided and it's for a stadium the taxpayers don't own. The rest of the team's money is coming over 20 years so the number isn't as big as it sounds in 2024 dollars. Just kind of the nature of the game at this point. Jax obviously got the better deal, and in a smaller market.

Plus, we get a roof.

I appreciate your work like I have said before. I wish the citizens, council, whatever, had the ability to meaningfully request adjustments to the agreement. We should be able to ask for more than the Mayor, respectfully. The focus on the CBA was very disheartening to me, after reading through the agreement's entirety. I believe some aspects have loopholes.

City Council had the opportunity to do that as they did with Lot J, they decided not to aside from the CBA split. Not like the Mayor can unilaterally pass this deal herself, especially with the poor starting leverage the city already had because I doubt anyone was willing to walk away. I'm sure this deal isn't perfect, but it's better than where we started and I'm happy it's done and it's not completely horrific so we can move on. Absolutely need to pass the rest of the CBA though.

[Jax_Developer]

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/a-letter-to-cleveland-browns-fans-across-northeast-ohio-and-beyond

Another proposed deal that puts ours into perspective. 50-50 true split on cost for a $2.4B new stadium. Private investment to be or exceed $1B from the team for the surrounding entertainment district.

Cleveland is a fairly comparable NFL market to ours. Thankfully, their team isn't looking for 50 acres of parking for free & they aren't forcing the city/state to invest beyond the price of the stadium. Better yet, they aren't giving their owner $25M for free.

[Tacachale]

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/a-letter-to-cleveland-browns-fans-across-northeast-ohio-and-beyond

Another proposed deal that puts ours into perspective. 50-50 true split on cost for a $2.4B new stadium. Private investment to be or exceed $1B from the team for the surrounding entertainment district.

Cleveland is a fairly comparable NFL market to ours. Thankfully, their team isn't looking for 50 acres of parking for free & they aren't forcing the city/state to invest beyond the price of the stadium. Better yet, they aren't giving their owner $25M for free.

Lol, the plan where they're leaving Cleveland? Yeah, great deal.

[Jax_Developer]

Lol, good copout. It's not like we have a consolidate government or anything like that. Oh, and I'm sure moving outside the city limits has never happened before. LMFAO.

[thelakelander]

The City of Cleveland is financing a stadium outside of its limits?

[Jax_Developer]

The county & state are the targets for the new location. No ink is down yet. To Tacachale's dismay, the City of Cleveland actually offered to stay at their lakefront location for $461M of public incentives.  Less than 50% of anticipated costs.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/city-of-cleveland-pitches-461-million-deal-to-keep-browns-stadium-on-lakefront

[Joey Mackey]

The Browns leaving their lakefront stadium and building a domed stadium in a suburb is such a Browns move lol.

[thelakelander]

Its hard for me to see in scenario of the Jags building a stadium in St. Johns, Nassau, Clay or Baker (or literally any other area of town outside of the Sports & Entertainment District) as a positive for Jacksonville.

[Jax_Developer]

Its hard for me to see in scenario of the Jags building a stadium in St. Johns, Nassau, Clay or Baker (or literally any other area of town outside of the Sports & Entertainment District) as a positive for Jacksonville.

I mean... that's a pretty loaded statement. Are you also okay with 50 acres of parking for 30 years in our Sports & Entertainment District? I for one am against Stroads & massive parking lots downtown... which completely engulf our current stadium. Are these investments really going to pan out?

Let's not kid ourselves, if the COJ didn't spend close to 50% of its CIP budget downtown, where would things be at? Let's not act like district 7 is the only district still recovering from consolidation. Why we would spend a billion+ downtown, to then give 50 acres of parking to the Jags is absolutely astonishing.

Time will expose the truth. It's amazing how fast the rhetoric has changed between administrations and how little people care. This money is also for Duval County, but it certainly doesn't seem that way.

[Captain Zissou]

Let's not kid ourselves, if the COJ didn't spend close to 50% of its CIP budget downtown, where would things be at?

So you're saying we shouldn't spend hundreds of millions to move the jail out of downtown?  I thought that was the main thing killing the vibrancy.  Now it's parking lots? 

[Jax_Developer]

Let's not kid ourselves, if the COJ didn't spend close to 50% of its CIP budget downtown, where would things be at?

So you're saying we shouldn't spend hundreds of millions to move the jail out of downtown?  I thought that was the main thing killing the vibrancy.  Now it's parking lots?

Good try! Lol. Keep reaching.

[thelakelander]

Its hard for me to see in scenario of the Jags building a stadium in St. Johns, Nassau, Clay or Baker (or literally any other area of town outside of the Sports & Entertainment District) as a positive for Jacksonville.

I mean... that's a pretty loaded statement. Are you also okay with 50 acres of parking for 30 years in our Sports & Entertainment District? I for one am against Stroads & massive parking lots downtown... which completely engulf our current stadium. Are these investments really going to pan out?

Let's not kid ourselves, if the COJ didn't spend close to 50% of its CIP budget downtown, where would things be at? Let's not act like district 7 is the only district still recovering from consolidation. Why we would spend a billion+ downtown, to then give 50 acres of parking to the Jags is absolutely astonishing.

Time will expose the truth. It's amazing how fast the rhetoric has changed between administrations and how little people care. This money is also for Duval County, but it certainly doesn't seem that way.

I'm 100% of the team not leaving city limits or moving outside of downtown. I'm also 100% against taking out a large swath of another urban core neighborhood for a new stadium. I can't speak for everyone, but location is important to me.