Downtown Development Update: What's rising, what's delayed

[jaxlongtimer]

My observation of the pedestrian malls I have been on is that they are lined with lots of retail and restaurants.  Going more than a block off I have found little to no activity by comparison, even in major world cities.  Adding a stage or square for programming, as you suggest, is important.  Look no further than RAM here having to do that to keep the crowds coming.

As a Downtown worker in the 80's, while Downtown retail was on the decline, much of what was left disappeared during the construction of the Skyway. Streets and sidewalks were ripped up for so long that many of the remaining retailers couldn't survive the interruptions.  Aside from my many comments about the viability of the Skyway as a mass transit option, I think this is another negative impact it had on decades of development Downtown.

Hemming Park didn't help either.  I lost count of how many times it was "updated", "renovated", "remodeled", etc.  Every time, it also resulted in detours and ripped up streets and sidewalks facing May Cohens, Woolworths, JC Penney, Morrisons, etc.  Combining/sequencing its disruptions with those of the Skyway was a force multiplier to kill Downtown retail.  Rule #1:  Retail cannot survive long when access to it is severely impaired, especially if it is already on the ropes.

I might add, making Main, Union and State "green light" expressways through Downtown was/is another boneheaded move.  I used to walk down Main to the Wendy's and cars were whizzing by at well over 45 mph.  People pulling out of the Wendy's drive-through were in for a harrowing experience.

A closed street for pedestrians would be the full opposite of the above.  Forcing people out of their cars to "smell the Downtown flowers."

Not disagreeing with your comments but do think we could start with weekend closures on a regular basis and build around it.  Maybe tie it in with one of the new riverfront parks or the Emerald Trail.  Or, use it as a connector from Gateway's Pearl to Laura Street and JWJ Park.  If RAM can work under a bridge, certainly we can make something work on a Downtown street.  Given the state of Downtown, we have very little to lose by trying something new.  And, it doesn't cost and arm and a leg and can be implemented on very short notice.  Anything else is going to likely take years and millions of dollars to implement.

Festival streets are a great idea, but I think we need to be careful in Jax that we don't diversify too quickly and shoot multiple efforts in the foot by competing against each other while we try to build momentum.

Diversify too quickly?  From what?  What are those multiple efforts?  To your (and Ennis and my) point, without a plan, there really is nothing that amounts to an "effort" other than what individual developers are doing. What happened to synergies?  If I were one of them, I would welcome any excuse we can make for people to visit Downtown because once Downtown, they will wander about, patronizing what they have developed.  I really see no downside.

By the way, have you ever noticed how crowded the Avondale shopping district gets for just 3 or 4 blocks when they close St. Johns Avenue for the holidays?  Wall to wall people for a few hours one night a year.  People are hungry for an excuse to do something different.  If you were around in 2005 for the Super Bowl and saw what we did then with closing the Main Street Bridge AND Bay Street to the stadium, with nothing but street vendors under pop up canopies, you would appreciate the potential of this as an attraction on an occasional basis. 

[MakeDTjaxGre@tAgain]

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[thelakelander]

My observation of the pedestrian malls I have been on is that they are lined with lots of retail and restaurants.  Going more than a block off I have found little to no activity by comparison, even in major world cities.


 Adding a stage or square for programming, as you suggest, is important.  Look no further than RAM here having to do that to keep the crowds coming.

Can you provide some successful examples? I think there's more to their success than simply being a permanently closed street.

Hemming Park didn't help either.  I lost count of how many times it was "updated", "renovated", "remodeled", etc.  Every time, it also resulted in detours and ripped up streets and sidewalks facing May Cohens, Woolworths, JC Penney, Morrisons, etc. 

Combining/sequencing its disruptions with those of the Skyway was a force multiplier to kill Downtown retail.  Rule #1:  Retail cannot survive long when access to it is severely impaired, especially if it is already on the ropes.

Lack of visibility and access kills businesses. This is a significant challenge for retail and dining on a closed street when there's no density, programming or consistent foot traffic.

A closed street for pedestrians would be the full opposite of the above.  Forcing people out of their cars to "smell the Downtown flowers."

Lack of visibility and access kills businesses. People are more likely to avoid the area, then be forced to come consistently.

Not disagreeing with your comments but do think we could start with weekend closures on a regular basis and build around it.  Maybe tie it in with one of the new riverfront parks or the Emerald Trail.  Or, use it as a connector from Gateway's Pearl to Laura Street and JWJ Park.  If RAM can work under a bridge, certainly we can make something work on a Downtown street.  Given the state of Downtown, we have very little to lose by trying something new.

This is short term programming. It isn't new. An event, festival or weekend market is significantly different from what it takes to close and support brick and mortar businesses on a stretch of street where there's not enough visibility or foot traffic to support. Coming from a family thats been in the street vending business at HBCU events since the 1980s, I'd also say most vendors at these markets aren't in a position to operate brick and mortar businesses as well.

And, it doesn't cost and arm and a leg and can be implemented on very short notice.  Anything else is going to likely take years and millions of dollars to implement.

A successful pedestrian street would take millions and years to pull off. There's no way to avoid that in downtown Jax. Today, we barely have a single block that is lined with open businesses. To get there requires planning and serious public and private investment.

Diversify too quickly?  From what?  What are those multiple efforts?  To your (and Ennis and my) point, without a plan, there really is nothing that amounts to an "effort" other than what individual developers are doing. What happened to synergies?  If I were one of them, I would welcome any excuse we can make for people to visit Downtown because once Downtown, they will wander about, patronizing what they have developed.  I really see no downside.

The country and state are full of failed pedestrian mall concepts. Many cities created more life by opening their closed off streets as festival or livable streets. Tampa (Franklin St Mall) and Raleigh (Fayetteville St) are two that come to mind. Our most successful example of an urban pedestrian mall was the Landing. We're still dealing with the negatives of how that ended. There are serious downsides that should not be overlooked when cutting off a good chunk of visibility and access to businesses, with no plan, intention, thought or financial investment to ward off the common reasons that killed many pedestrian malls throughout the country.

By the way, have you ever noticed how crowded the Avondale shopping district gets for just 3 or 4 blocks when they close St. Johns Avenue for the holidays?  Wall to wall people for a few hours one night a year.  People are hungry for an excuse to do something different.  If you were around in 2005 for the Super Bowl and saw what we did then with closing the Main Street Bridge AND Bay Street to the stadium, with nothing but street vendors under pop up canopies, you would appreciate the potential of this as an attraction on an occasional basis.

This is programming. The super bowl in 2005 was a circus, not a sustainable street scene. Other than Eclate, I don't recall there being much of anything permanently operating on East Bay at the time. I was there when the circus packed up and headed out of town immediately following the game. Buildings went back to being vacant and the jazz club withered and died.