Duval County Public Schools narrows list of bidders for headquarters move

[thelakelander]

Call me crazy, but is anyone looking at the idea of moving the School Board to the old JEA building that they just moved out of? The city already owns the land/building. So refresh that building, relocate the School Board to 21 Church St., and sell the current building. Or does that make too much sense?

JEA owns 21 West Church Street. I believe their plans are to sell the building to the highest bidder. Not give it away. DCPS should re-evaluate what they are trying to do altogether. Unless its profitable for them and their core purpose, they should stay right where they are at. They already own the property and their existing building. That entire space could likely be renovated or redeveloped in a manner that far cheaper for DCPS, then selling the property and locking itself into a long term deal at a much higher cost then the profit they'd make in the sale.

[marcuscnelson]

I think there's still some promise in the Florida Blue bid, but at the same time it probably does make sense to avoid making a bad deal just so that DCPS is off the river. It's good that they went down the road of exploring what options the market had, but if they're not positive outcomes for DCPS then there's no dishonor in admitting that and returning to the status quo.

[Ken_FSU]

Another municipal RFP that ends in a colossal waste of time for all bidders involved.

Here is my shocked face:

[marcuscnelson]

I mean in this case it isn't necessarily a bad thing. DCPS looked for offers and found out the market wasn't what they hoped for and there wasn't a good enough deal.

That's not the same thing as picking a winner and then deciding that actually you'd like to do something else so you abandon the RFP and then fumble around for several years until deciding that actually you'd like to spend even more money in order to accomplish those goals through some harebrained scheme.

[thelakelander]

If they ended up with an RFP where the bids are light years away from where they wanted to be, then that speaks to the RFP being a bad one.

[Ken_FSU]

I mean in this case it isn't necessarily a bad thing. DCPS looked for offers and found out the market wasn't what they hoped for and there wasn't a good enough deal.

That's not the same thing as picking a winner and then deciding that actually you'd like to do something else so you abandon the RFP and then fumble around for several years until deciding that actually you'd like to spend even more money in order to accomplish those goals through some harebrained scheme.

In a vacuum, maybe it's not that bad, but you've got to think that over time, all of these bad-faith RFP processes are going to erode the trust and willingness of developers to participate, if that hasn't already happened.

- Convention Center - issue an RFP; lots of major entities participate; Jacobs spends millions and brings 30 people to their presentation; we decide as a city that, "Never mind, this dusty old DIA study says we need entertainment first; we're not going to build a convention center after all."

- Landing RFP - DIA picks winner amongst national firms based on a public art piece that they later dismiss as "unrealistic"

- LaVilla Townhomes - Johnson Commons is clearly the best bid; project given to Vestcor; Vestcor told to essentially copy the Johnson Commons design

- DCPS Headquarters - SIXTEEN companies devote the time, resources, and dollars necessary to respond in good faith to the DCPS's relocation RFP. From the sounds of it, DCPS never wanted to spend money to begin with, and was purely issuing the RFP because of the poor optics related to having a headquarters on the river.

Carter was awarded Ford on Bay in part because the DIA was prioritizing someone who could break ground quickly; they immediately give Carter a two-year due diligence window before even committing to the project

Landing private development RFP was looking for hotel and office uses; was awarded to a 40-story residential tower (in fairness, it was the only bidder)

The list just goes on and on and on.

Throw in how we treat private developers like Toney Sleiman who do invest in Downtown Jacksonville, and it has to be a contributing factor to why we don't see more interest in some of these RFPs.

Like many other aspects of how the city handles things, particularly in regards to timelines and communication, it's just totally disrespectful to stakeholders and the general public.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ I am against moving DCPS off the river as it doesn't make financial sense.

That said, developers participation in RFP's is a cost of doing business.  When they win one, they typically win handsomely rewarding them for the risk of not being selected at other times.  Even when an RFP is awarded, any one developer can be among many who do not get the award so the result of nothing happening is the same, many times, as if an award is given.

Any sales person knows that, at best, if you knock on 10 doors, you are doing good to get one answer (that might not lead to an actual sale).  This applies to any business.  "Marketing" expenses are built into the pricing if the business is performing properly.

I agree, though, no one wants to spend time on a solicitation if there is absolutely no chance for a win.  In a political process, this possibility is heightened.  But, I also believe government entities pay a premium for this extra risk so, in the end, developers still win if they play the lottery enough times.  The real losers are the taxpayers.

I might add that, in talking with business people who do, or could do, business with government, many won't bid due to the bureaucratic hassle and/or feeling the game is often rigged.  If they do bid, they mark up the bids substantially to cover the effort and frustration involved to bid and/or should they be selected to move forward. This self-direction by potential bidders vouches for the extra costs to taxpayers for almost any project.

[thelakelander]

^ I am against moving DCPS off the river as it doesn't make financial sense.

This is where I'm ending up. I'm failing to see how relocating from the property makes financial sense. If the building needs to be replaced, they have enough property to do that on-site and still achieve other's goals of being off the river.

[Jax_Developer]

My only counter to the current situation is that they do have an 11 acre site at Midtown Centre. I understand the drawbacks of a site like that relative to the downtown discussion, but truthfully the current site now really does not serve as a huge benefit to the business environment that 'needs' help downtown... I'd argue. The greater Midtown Centre on the other hand would certainly benefit from the employment in the area. It does have great connectivity there as well, and is arguably as accessible as the current site being right off the Hart Bridge & Rt 1. (One Bus Line runs through it, and another runs 0.1 miles away.) The building is also 200k+ SF with room to expand and existing parking. Makes it pretty capable of handling a sizable office presence today... retrofit it for a drastically lower cost.

I feel like in this scenario, it would just make sense to add the DCPS river site to the Preston Hollow development next-door. Another several acres which should be able to sustain 400+ apartments and hopefully some retail. DCPS gets $10m+ for the river site and gets to focus on improving the Midtown site and moving some funds elsewhere. Win/Win in my eyes. I don't think they should stay on the river, but I also don't think they "need" a new flashy HQ or to lease some DT space... Why not look at using resources already available?

[vicupstate]

A 20 or 40 year commitment is not advisable. A business would not commit to that either.

It seems to me the DCPS should pay to retrofit the space in Florida Blue and sign a 10 year lease at what ought to be a low rate given how old the building is and how low lease rates are in DT JAX. If Florida Blue can't commit to that surely someone in the DT area would.

DCPS should then sell their building and use that to offset the cost of renovations and to pay the lease. The tax revenue from the riverfront site should cover a lot or all of whatever still remains for the 10 years.  Given the way the world of work is changing their needs could be far different in 10 years.

As for 21 W. Church St., I can't see that building fetching a high price.  It is specifically designed for JEA's needs and it is what 60 years old, give or take?  Who else would want it and the First Baptist properties are direct competition for anyone that might want it. I could see the School Board buying it at a reasonable price and getting significantly more from selling it's current building. 

[jaxlongtimer]

^ I am against moving DCPS off the river as it doesn't make financial sense.

This is where I'm ending up. I'm failing to see how relocating from the property makes financial sense. If the building needs to be replaced, they have enough property to do that on-site and still achieve other's goals of being off the river.

Lake, for those pushing to move DCPS off the river to spur development, I would compare this on some level to your discussion about moving the jail.  There is no urgency or great demand to develop this property when one considers the abundance/back log of existing opportunities not being exploited.  What's the rush here?  We will just end up with another empty lot for years to come.  Better to have DCPS productively use it until all else around it is consumed by development.  This will also yield far more dollars for DCPS as its land will be much more valuable when it is the "last man standing."

[thelakelander]

^I agree. If it doesn't make financial sense to relocate, then stay for the time being. There's no reason to move or sell the property for the sake of moving. Both of those relocation deals sound bad. So better to have a few hundred downtown employees on the site than it sitting vacant.

[Jax_Developer]

I don't see why this or the jail requires immediate vacancy. Both should be phased plans.. DCPS can create an agreement to be gone in 5 years for example. This happens a lot elsewhere, and it benefits both sides in the LR. There are real benefits to moving both with the correct strategy in place. The problem is that there is no faith in the leadership locally to execute.

[thelakelander]

Regarding the jail, I met with CM Boylan earlier this week. The jail study will be looking at things from the perspective of our public safety needs, moving forward. Not necessarily moving the jail out of downtown. When those needs are defined, they'll know what they need for new or renovated facility (or maybe multiple smaller facilities). From an equity perspective, there may still be a need for a centralized facility, so the rumors of a random move to the pea farm are premature. I believe they are on the right track with the study and look forward to the updates.

[Jax_Developer]

Good start. I'm really interested to see the results of their efforts.