Again, rules mean little in Jax as self storage request moves forward

[acme54321]

Also, what is the specific site in the Southbank/San Marco, that led to this entire issue bubbling up?

It's the current Basil Thai restaurant parcel at Hendricks and Prudential.  One of the most prominent pieces of property in that area and across the street from a vibrant restaurant.  The Industry West and Reddi Arts renovations will also bring more life to that area.  This is not the place for self storage.

Holy shit.  For some reason I thought this was the vacant parcel on Home Street that was used by the Wine Cellar for parking.  I can't believe this is even being entertained...

[jaxlongtimer]

Nate Monroe puts a pessimistic bow on what ails Downtown as he sings my tune (and that of others on the Jaxson).  A "cluster" of a disaster with no end in sight.  One bad turn after another.  No leadership. Inconsistent and bad decision making.  Lack of vision.  Caving to developers with no coordinated plan.  Adding up to a long term downward spiral.

Nate Monroe: Jacksonville's bicentennial flop lays bare a city in deep malaise

COMMENTARY | Ben Becker, a reporter with Action News Jax, has an aggressive style that rubs some folks in City Hall and beyond the wrong way. So does Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry.

"You're a sad human being," Curry told Becker as he climbed into the passenger seat of an SUV.

Aren't we all?

It was as fitting a moment as any to be the most remembered about the city's bicentennial celebration this past weekend, a festival that, rather than unifying, turned out to be divisive and kind of strange. And despite indicating that all of Jacksonville's living mayors would attend the festivities, none actually did. Becker wanted to know why Curry skipped out. There may in fact be a good reason, though it's beyond this columnist to care one way or another; one does not need a compelling excuse to avoid milling around the shade-less patch of waterfront grass we are told will one day resemble something like an actual park.

But the malaise of it all — the bicentennial flop — feels like an outgrowth of something less trivial:

The sheriff fled town, unapologetically vacating his job nearly a year before his tenure was set to end, and leaving a pitiful legacy in his wake.

VyStar — plagued by a stunning, widespread and long-lasting failure of its online banking system — is Jacksonville's latest Prometheus, punished by the unforgiving gods for trying to save our cursed downtown. There can be no heroes, apparently.

The damn Confederate statue in Springfield Park remains, as much a monument to treasonous slugs as it is to contemporary political cowardice.

"Downtown once bustled with actual crowds," a local headline deadpanned, a fitting indictment of the status quo — a landscape of sun-blasted lots and hollowed-out buildings.

The City Council's response to this desolation is to consider reversing a previous ban on the construction of new self-storage unit buildings in downtown. That'll fix it!

Does it feel like anyone is in charge?

Downtown itself has been balkanized — divided up among various developers who are drawing up piecemeal plans with no connection to a larger, unified vision. The Downtown Investment Authority, theoretically the agency in charge of creating and stewarding this vision, moves with the urgency of a yellow-bellied slider.

But in any case there is no actual vision to steward, just a smattering of "trust-us" plans with no real funding attached, all subject to change at any moment if someone with enough influence comes along and decides the latest planned park would actually make for a better multi-family low-rise. It'll be anyone's guess if that mediocre low-rise ever materializes, but in the intervening years the city will have a perfectly functionless patch of grass to fawn over.

The vision-setting has been entirely outsourced to private special interests — the Jaguars, for example, who may or may not one day succeed in building a Four Seasons across the street from the stadium (fittingly, the project timeline is being pushed back even before a shovel touches the ground).

And then what?

Downtown will still be the same crummy old downtown — only this time with a Four Seasons attached to its outskirts. Downtown still won't have two-way streets, an idea promised for years and for years never acted on. It will still have little density and not nearly enough residential housing — short by many thousands of units — because instead of spending millions encouraging many developers to build housing in the downtown core it spent millions encouraging one developer to build a Four Seasons on the fringe. Downtown will still have a "homeless problem" because there is no sustained, holistic plan to care for people who don't have homes, and it will still have a "crime problem" because for some suburbanites no amount of evidence to the contrary will ever rectify this perception.

And ultimately Jacksonville will still have a downtown problem because city officials don't often like to speak to their constituents honestly, and honesty would require a plain acknowledgment things just aren't going well — and not just because of some vague, cosmic injustice but because of conscious decisions made by city officials for years and years: What to invest in; who to invest in; where to invest. These are all decisions with consequences.

A problem can't be fixed if it's never acknowledged.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2022/06/14/jacksonvilles-bicentennial-flop-reveals-city-despair-monroe/7620230001/

[thelakelander]

Also, what is the specific site in the Southbank/San Marco, that led to this entire issue bubbling up?

It's the current Basil Thai restaurant parcel at Hendricks and Prudential.  One of the most prominent pieces of property in that area and across the street from a vibrant restaurant.  The Industry West and Reddi Arts renovations will also bring more life to that area.  This is not the place for self storage.

Holy shit.  For some reason I thought this was the vacant parcel on Home Street that was used by the Wine Cellar for parking.  I can't believe this is even being entertained...

Yeah, we tend to seriously entertain some foolish projects. My guess is its only gotten this far because of the Steve Diebenow is representing the project.

[Charles Hunter]

As usual, Nate hits it out of the park. Do any of the mayoral candidates give an inkling of having a vision (not having visions) for downtown and the city? Anyone? Bueller?

[WarDamJagFan]

As usual, Nate hits it out of the park. Do any of the mayoral candidates give an inkling of having a vision (not having visions) for downtown and the city? Anyone? Bueller?

I've had the chance to meet and speak with Leanne Cumber and I would say she seems to be a bit more aware of the problems than anyone else currently running.  It's pretty sad to say (when looking back at previous candidates over the years) but probably her best qualification is simply the fact that she hasn't lived and worked in Jacksonville her entire life like a Donna Deegan or Daniel Davis. Most people here (the Jaxson) seemed to agree with her staunch disapproval of this self-storage insanity and logic behind her disapproval. I know politics has become more tribal than college football in the South, but I think she has opinions about DT and what needs to change that many here wouldn't necessarily disagree with.  At this point, we don't need a candidate who we agree with on 100% of the issues. Just give us someone who's not an entrenched slug. Think of it like the Jags... "We just want to be competitive at least!"

[jaxlongtimer]

^ FYI, I have heard Deegan speak about Downtown and she appears to me to get it.  Much of her comments aligned with those on the Jaxson.  I also have heard from others that she has done a lot of "homework" canvassing a range of interested parties about various approaches. 

I have supported other candidates in the past after hearing them/speaking with them and find many don't come close to acting as promised once elected.  No guarantees, of course, but Deegan seems more sincere than most.  I am not convinced, as much, that this is true of the other "leading" candidates given they have already changed their tunes over time to pander for votes.

As a longtimer I also have seen "newcomers" sometimes less vested in the City than not, so, while I appreciate they can bring fresh perspectives and less "baggage," it is not a given that works out.  In the end, I judge by the individual's character, experiences and demonstrated positions.  Unfortunately, in today's world, I often find myself not liking any of the choices and just voting for the lesser of evils.  Our current vicious environment has done a good job of running off many of the best possibilities.

[Tacachale]

As usual, Nate hits it out of the park. Do any of the mayoral candidates give an inkling of having a vision (not having visions) for downtown and the city? Anyone? Bueller?

I've had the chance to meet and speak with Leanne Cumber and I would say she seems to be a bit more aware of the problems than anyone else currently running.  It's pretty sad to say (when looking back at previous candidates over the years) but probably her best qualification is simply the fact that she hasn't lived and worked in Jacksonville her entire life like a Donna Deegan or Daniel Davis. Most people here (the Jaxson) seemed to agree with her staunch disapproval of this self-storage insanity and logic behind her disapproval. I know politics has become more tribal than college football in the South, but I think she has opinions about DT and what needs to change that many here wouldn't necessarily disagree with.  At this point, we don't need a candidate who we agree with on 100% of the issues. Just give us someone who's not an entrenched slug. Think of it like the Jags... "We just want to be competitive at least!"

Cumber understands some of the problems we have with Downtown. The problem with her is she's willing to oppose and even fight against the solutions for political expediency. She talks about infrastructure investment but opposed the gas tax and putting the school board tax on the ballot. She talks about not wasting money but she voted to spend $233 million on Lot J. She's right about some things, like this storage fiasco, but very often she's indistinguishable from the current status quo.

People who are new here don't necessarily have any better insight than the old timers. Brian Hughes and Aaron Zahn are also Jax newbies.

[Tacachale]

^ FYI, I have heard Deegan speak about Downtown and she appears to me to get it.  Much of her comments aligned with those on the Jaxson.  I also have heard from others that she has done a lot of "homework" canvassing a range of interested parties about various approaches. 

I have supported other candidates in the past after hearing them/speaking with them and find many don't come close to acting as promised once elected.  No guarantees, of course, but Deegan seems more sincere than most.  I am not convinced, as much, that this is true of the other "leading" candidates given they have already changed their tunes over time to pander for votes.

As a longtimer I also have seen "newcomers" sometimes less vested in the City than not, so, while I appreciate they can bring fresh perspectives and less "baggage," it is not a given that works out.  In the end, I judge by the individual's character, experiences and demonstrated positions.  Unfortunately, in today's world, I often find myself not liking any of the choices and just voting for the lesser of evils.  Our current vicious environment has done a good job of running off many of the best possibilities.

I was helping Matt Carlucci when he was in the mayor's race (and am continuing to do so in his council race). He was the candidate whose ideas on Downtown were the most similar to mine. It's a real blow for him to be out of the race.

I've met with Donna and talked quite a bit about Downtown, and we're in agreement on a lot of our problems and solutions and she seems all in. Her head's definitely in the right place. I think especially for her, it's going to be a matter of building the right staff to make it happen (and to show voters she can make it happen). Re Davis, he's going to be generally supportive of Downtown development, at least in the ways the establishment gets behind. I don't think we have to worry about him cutting funding for historic renovations, for instance. Unfortunately with him, there's going to continue to be hooey like the claim that getting 10k residents Downtown to fix everything, as well as deals like Lot J and the JEA sale fiasco. We haven't heard to much from Audrey Gibson yet, so it'll be interesting to see which way she goes.

[Captain Zissou]

it will still have a "crime problem" because for some suburbanites no amount of evidence to the contrary will ever rectify this perception.

Nate Monroe is good at uncovering the backroom dealings of the current administration, but at the same time I don't feel like he is helping Jacksonville or downtown progress. In the above quote he recognizes that crime is more of a perception issue than an actual problem, but in the remainder of the article I feel like he is spreading a lot of negative perception that is overblown. In the Tucker Carlson era, being a loud voice criticizing others gets more views/clicks than offering up solutions and I think Monroe is taking a page out of that playbook.

[WarDamJagFan]

As usual, Nate hits it out of the park. Do any of the mayoral candidates give an inkling of having a vision (not having visions) for downtown and the city? Anyone? Bueller?

I've had the chance to meet and speak with Leanne Cumber and I would say she seems to be a bit more aware of the problems than anyone else currently running.  It's pretty sad to say (when looking back at previous candidates over the years) but probably her best qualification is simply the fact that she hasn't lived and worked in Jacksonville her entire life like a Donna Deegan or Daniel Davis. Most people here (the Jaxson) seemed to agree with her staunch disapproval of this self-storage insanity and logic behind her disapproval. I know politics has become more tribal than college football in the South, but I think she has opinions about DT and what needs to change that many here wouldn't necessarily disagree with.  At this point, we don't need a candidate who we agree with on 100% of the issues. Just give us someone who's not an entrenched slug. Think of it like the Jags... "We just want to be competitive at least!"

Cumber understands some of the problems we have with Downtown. The problem with her is she's willing to oppose and even fight against the solutions for political expediency. She talks about infrastructure investment but opposed the gas tax and putting the school board tax on the ballot. She talks about not wasting money but she voted to spend $233 million on Lot J. She's right about some things, like this storage fiasco, but very often she's indistinguishable from the current status quo.

People who are new here don't necessarily have any better insight than the old timers. Brian Hughes and Aaron Zahn are also Jax newbies.

I did want to ask her about Lot J but time didn't allow it. I agree with you in that I certainly have questions behind the vote once more of that garbage can of a "deal" came to light. There was a lot of discussion around the Laura Street Trio and why that is being held up in addition to other related projects from Steve Atkins that required far too much give from the city in her opinion. The last bit of time we had was around Tampa. I forget how there's a connection but I remember her discussing having a strong relationship with the former Mayor of Tampa, Buckhorn. Tampa has certainly turned its game around and she talked about some of the shakeups to City Hall which allowed Tampa to flourish and, naturally, how she would want to do the same here.

While some of the above may seem somewhat vague as I don't remember too many specific details, I do remember liking most of what I heard. Time will tell once campaigns get into the full swing. All I know is that I have extreme voters remorse over Curry. With our first kid finally on the way, there's more of a motivation to be involved in this community. I have conservative leanings but I'm sick of the R vs D war. If it comes down to Deegan vs Davis and Deegan's plan for the city is more rooted in true structural changes that would allow this place to flourish then sure, I'd vote for her.

[fieldafm]

I've met with Donna and talked quite a bit about Downtown, and we're in agreement on a lot of our problems and solutions and she seems all in. Her head's definitely in the right place.

in almost 30 years as a professional adult in Jax, what has Donna Deegan done for Downtown?

[jaxlongtimer]

I've met with Donna and talked quite a bit about Downtown, and we're in agreement on a lot of our problems and solutions and she seems all in. Her head's definitely in the right place.

in almost 30 years as a professional adult in Jax, what has Donna Deegan done for Downtown?

Out of curiosity, who do you think has done something good for Downtown besides developers and since, maybe, Jake Godbold?  What did Curry, Austin, Peyton, Brown, Delaney do before they were elected? - or once they got in office?

[Tacachale]

I've met with Donna and talked quite a bit about Downtown, and we're in agreement on a lot of our problems and solutions and she seems all in. Her head's definitely in the right place.

in almost 30 years as a professional adult in Jax, what has Donna Deegan done for Downtown?

She sure hasn't moved it backwards the way most of her competition has done in the last few years alone. Having met with her, she's a lot more knowledgeable about City Hall and the political levers from her years as a newscaster than some give her credit for.

[Tacachale]

I've met with Donna and talked quite a bit about Downtown, and we're in agreement on a lot of our problems and solutions and she seems all in. Her head's definitely in the right place.

in almost 30 years as a professional adult in Jax, what has Donna Deegan done for Downtown?

Out of curiosity, who do you think has done something good for Downtown besides developers and since, maybe, Jake Godbold?  What did Curry, Austin, Peyton, Brown, Delaney do before they were elected? - or once they got in office?

Historically, having worked in City Hall before becoming mayor has served mayors well. And conversely, not having that experience can set them back to one extent or another.

[fieldafm]

I've met with Donna and talked quite a bit about Downtown, and we're in agreement on a lot of our problems and solutions and she seems all in. Her head's definitely in the right place.

in almost 30 years as a professional adult in Jax, what has Donna Deegan done for Downtown?

Out of curiosity, who do you think has done something good for Downtown besides developers and since, maybe, Jake Godbold?  What did Curry, Austin, Peyton, Brown, Delaney do before they were elected? - or once they got in office?

Um, ok.