NoCo and SoBa?

[jaxlongtimer]

As Charlie Brown would say, "Aaaargh!"  Looks like DIA snookered the media now to call it the North Core.  Check this headline and article out today:

Interior demolition approved at North Core Independent Life Building

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/interior-demolition-approved-at-north-core-independent-life-building

[jaxoNOLE]

As Charlie Brown would say, "Aaaargh!"  Looks like DIA snookered the media now to call it the North Core.  Check this headline and article out today:

Interior demolition approved at North Core Independent Life Building

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/interior-demolition-approved-at-north-core-independent-life-building

Wow. The DIA must have genuinely wanted public feedback on the rebranding when this pops up just 7 days after the survey seeking said feedback opened up. Seeing the reference used in context, it's even more obvious "North Core" does not naturally imply the building is only a block from the river.

[CityLife]

It sounds even worse now that it's being used in the real world. The name "North Core" at it's core just does not sound like an appealing place. I don't know if it's the association with the core of a nuclear reactor, but it just sounds like an industrial place. In addition to all the issues with it raised here and in Bill's article, there is also a fundamental geographic issue with the name itself. The name implies that there is either a central core (and this is the northern extension of it) or there are multiple cores and this is the northernmost one. A more apt name would be the Historic Core. If you wanted to be ridiculous and give it a four letter moniker, HiCo at least has positive connotations and is better than NoCo.

[Ken_FSU]

^In the Daily Record's defense, they are using "North Core" in a different context than the DIA.

And, in a context that makes more sense.

Follow me here...

In typical Jax fashion, there are actually two separate "North Core" rebrands competing with each other.

About a year ago, a handful of development groups with downtown projects nearby each other -  JWB, Augustine Group, the Wiss family, and ACE - decided to try to rebrand and market ~18-blocks well away from the river as "North Core." Roughly Duval to State, and Broad to Main.

This pre-established development zone is the "North Core" that the Daily Record is referring to, which includes Augustine's Independent Life project.

The DIA's new North Core/NoCo branding - a separate thing entirely - includes the entirety of the Northbank/CBD.

HOPEFULLY the DIA consulted with the city's largest collection of active downtown developers before aping their name wholesale.

Butyaneverknow.

[CityLife]

^Hard to keep up sometimes. Thanks for pointing that out. 

The North Core makes a lot more sense for that other group. It literally it is the northern part of the Downtown core or historic core. I still don't think it's a very sexy name, but at least is logical.

[jaxoNOLE]

^In the Daily Record's defense, they are using "North Core" in a different context than the DIA.

And, in a context that makes more sense.

Follow me here...

In typical Jax fashion, there are actually two separate "North Core" rebrands competing with each other.

About a year ago, a handful of development groups with downtown projects nearby each other -  JWB, Augustine Group, the Wiss family, and ACE - decided to try to rebrand and market ~18-blocks well away from the river as "North Core." Roughly Duval to State, and Broad to Main.

This pre-established development zone is the "North Core" that the Daily Record is referring to, which includes Augustine's Independent Life project.

The DIA's new North Core/NoCo branding - a separate thing entirely - includes the entirety of the Northbank/CBD.

HOPEFULLY the DIA consulted with the city's largest collection of active downtown developers before aping their name wholesale.

Butyaneverknow.

The need for this explanation kind of highlights one of the core (sorry, couldn't resist) shortcomings of the rebranding attempts. Logical or not--and competing rebrands notwithstanding--the name doesn't immediately resonate with locals as a definitive area. Northbank, Southbank, LaVilla, Brooklyn, Eastside, Springfield, etc. -- a lot of people intuitively understand where these places are. North Core, not so much.

[Tacachale]

^Yes, that's the problem. They clearly just bogarted the name from the Duval-State Street developers, stretched it to cover the entire Northbank, and then tried to shorten that to NoCo before the name was even in use. It's a textbook example of contrived, out of touch marketing.

[jaxjags]

I've always felt that more important than this rebranding is better wayfarer signs on the 95 and the 10. Each district would be represented by a color and then those colors would be on the appropriate exit(s) and local street signs as needed. Also listed would be major locations that residents/visitors are looking for.

As an example the Sports District could be teal and list TIAA, Vystar, Baseball Grounds, Met Park (opps sorry). All exits and street signs identified with a teal square.

Northbank - Red -Performing Arts Center, Welden Park, Library, Government Offices, Landing (opps sorry)

Southbank - Blue - Baptist, MD Anderson, San Marco

Lavilla - Yellow - JTA Transportation Hub, Amtrak (opps sorry), Ritz

Brooklyn - Orange - Cummer, 5 Points, Riverside, St. Vincent's

I believe this will help promote these areas and provide assistance to find locations for both locals and visitors.

[WAJAS]

I've always felt that more important than this rebranding is better wayfarer signs on the 95 and the 10. Each district would be represented by a color and then those colors would be on the appropriate exit(s) and local street signs as needed. Also listed would be major locations that residents/visitors are looking for.

As an example the Sports District could be teal and list TIAA, Vystar, Baseball Grounds, Met Park (opps sorry). All exits and street signs identified with a teal square.

Northbank - Red -Performing Arts Center, Welden Park, Library, Government Offices, Landing (opps sorry)

Southbank - Blue - Baptist, MD Anderson, San Marco

Lavilla - Yellow - JTA Transportation Hub, Amtrak (opps sorry), Ritz

Brooklyn - Orange - Cummer, 5 Points, Riverside, St. Vincent's

I believe this will help promote these areas and provide assistance to find locations for both locals and visitors.

I'm all for better wayfinding in the downtown area. However, the colors would likely run into problems due to highway signage standards.

[Charles Hunter]

I can't find it right now, but I have seen articles where exceptions were granted for wayfinding signs.  Would have to work with FDOT to get it done.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ Really, we should name the city after the first inhabitants to live here, the Timucua.  From Wikipedia, the name they had for what is now Jacksonville is Saturiwa.  The larger area was known as the Mocama (Timuca for "ocean") Province.  Either name might be a good choice for Jacksonville if it went through a name change.  There are many city and state names derived from Native Americans so this would just be another example of that. 

Another benefit of picking such a name is that, aside from having a real historical connection to the area (Andrew Jackson never stepped foot in Jacksonville), there wouldn't be a half dozen or more cities with the same name.  We would have a unique identity and it would give us a fresh start on building a new brand and image sans the baggage of our often less than illustrious history.

The largest and best known of the eastern Timucua groups were the Mocama, who lived in the coastal areas of what are now Florida and southeastern Georgia, from St. Simons Island to south of the mouth of the St. Johns River.[26] They gave their name to the Mocama Province, which became one of the major divisions of the Spanish mission system. They spoke a dialect also known as Mocama (Timucua for "Ocean"), which is the best attested of the Timucua dialects. At the time of European contact, there were two major chiefdoms among the Mocama, the Saturiwa and the Tacatacuru, each of which had a number of smaller villages subject to them.[27]

The Saturiwa were concentrated around the mouth of the St. Johns in what is now Jacksonville, and had their main village on the river's south bank.[28] European contact with the Eastern Timucua began in 1564 when the French Huguenots under René Goulaine de Laudonnière established Fort Caroline in Saturiwa territory. The Saturiwa forged an alliance with the French, and at first opposed the Spanish when they arrived. Over time, however, they submitted to the Spanish and were incorporated into their mission system. The important Mission San Juan del Puerto was established at their main village; it was here that Francisco Pareja undertook his studies of the Timucua language. The Tacatacuru lived on Cumberland Island in present-day Georgia, and controlled villages on the coast. They too were incorporated into the Spanish mission system, with Mission San Pedro de Mocama being established in 1587....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timucua

Wow! The Mocama name just popped up a Times Union article.  Some neat finds re: our first area residents, the true founders of present day Jacksonville:

UNF archaeologist: 'No doubt' that digs have found ancient coastal Native American village

A University of North Florida archaeologist is now certain that a rich site for ancient artifacts, deep in the jungles of Big Talbot Island, is the lost Native American settlement of Sarabay, a once-thriving village mentioned in French and Spanish documents from as far back as the 1560s.

"No doubt we have a 16th-century Mocama community," said Keith Ashley, referring to the name the Spanish gave the local residents who lived here long before Europeans arrived.

Ashley has had suspicions since 1998 that he'd found Sarabay, when he and students began digging on Big Talbot. Now, generations of students later, he's sure: There's just too much evidence.

Evidence such as European documents that mention Sarabay's island location and its distance from a French settlement and a later Spanish mission. And evidence such as the hundreds of bags of artifacts found at the site — Mocama pottery, Spanish pottery, bone, charred corn — that are stored at a UNF lab.....

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/education/campus/2021/06/04/unf-archaeologists-find-ancient-16th-century-native-american-village/7529814002/

[bl8jaxnative]

I've always felt that more important than this rebranding is better wayfarer signs on the 95 and the 10. Each district would be represented by a color and then those colors would be on the appropriate exit(s) and local street signs as needed. Also listed would be major locations that residents/visitors are looking for.

As an example the Sports District could be teal and list TIAA, Vystar, Baseball Grounds, Met Park (opps sorry). All exits and street signs identified with a teal square.

Northbank - Red -Performing Arts Center, Welden Park, Library, Government Offices, Landing (opps sorry)

Southbank - Blue - Baptist, MD Anderson, San Marco

Lavilla - Yellow - JTA Transportation Hub, Amtrak (opps sorry), Ritz

Brooklyn - Orange - Cummer, 5 Points, Riverside, St. Vincent's

I believe this will help promote these areas and provide assistance to find locations for both locals and visitors.

A name and a color.  There's something to said for K.I.S.S.  Well done.

[Charles Hunter]

I participated in a meeting involving DIA, COJ, and FDOT many (many many) years ago about Downtown Wayfinding. They were looking at adding pedestrian- and auto- oriented wayfinding signs throughout the Northbank and Southbank. A key element was a different color for the different sections of the Northbank, and the Southbank.  As I recall, there were a couple meetings, some proposed designs, and - in true Jacksonville fashion - nothing.

[jaxlongtimer]

I participated in a meeting involving DIA, COJ, and FDOT many (many many) years ago about Downtown Wayfinding. They were looking at adding pedestrian- and auto- oriented wayfinding signs throughout the Northbank and Southbank. A key element was a different color for the different sections of the Northbank, and the Southbank.  As I recall, there were a couple meetings, some proposed designs, and - in true Jacksonville fashion - nothing.

I nominate the street color schemes on the Monopoly board.  You always knew where you were by the color - no need to read the words on the board or the deed cards.   

[jaxjags]

Again, it seems like the relatively simple and inexpensive things that can be done to improve DT for both locals and visitors are ignored. I think if someone in power at JTA or City Hall worked with FDOT, interstate signs could also be developed. Sometimes it just takes a little effort and time. But no, as we are always looking for the game changer.