Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....

[Charles Hunter]

Thanks for the information about the Board Members, marcusnelson.

The JTA Board Member page is (perhaps intentionally?) unclear in how the people listed are identified. Each bio is headlined with their name and position, followed by their biography. Wallace is "Vice Chair"; Sams is "Secretary"; Brown, Glober, and Horner are shown as "Board Member"; and the page concludes with Dr. Johnson identified as "Council Liaison", making it seem that it is his position as a Board Member.
The text at the top of the page describing the Board still reflects the 3/3/FDOT composition.

https://www.jtafla.com/about-us/leadership/board-of-directors/

To get back to why we were discussing the JTA Board - the possibility of them killing U2C - becomes interesting if the State DOGE takes a critical look at U2C, it may influence DeSantis' selection of people to fill his two current vacancies.

[Ken_FSU]

Just keeps getting worse and worse.

JTA warns federal dollars in jeopardy as safety-plan impasse lands in court



"A dispute over Jacksonville Transportation Authority's safety procedures has escalated into federal litigation, putting [$100 million] of federal transit funding in jeopardy.

At the center of the unionized employees' opposition is JTA's proposed terms in the 2025 safety plan regarding the use of the autonomous transit service the Ultimate Urban Circulator – which is slated for a $240 million expansion using local option gas tax money.

The safety plan at issue, dubbed the Public Transportation Agency Safety Plan, dictates how to identify and evaluate safety risks throughout JTA's system and how to reduce hazards and unsafe conditions to staff and the public, according to the suit.

For more than a year, ATU 1197 has declined to approve an agreement with JTA over the proposed revisions of the plan covering safety protocols for the U2C, according to the suit.

ATU 1197 opposed the inclusion of the U2C in the terms of the safety plan as a "mode of service" and deemed the service as "unsafe."

In order to sign off on the safety plan, the union demanded the fulfillment of certain conditions, including organizing the operating employees of the Neighborhood Autonomous Vehicle Innovation (NAVI) system and the St. Johns River Ferry, along with a $1-per-hour wage increase to ATU-represented employees for the duration of JTA's contract with BEEP, according to the suit.

An approved plan is required under the United States government's Federal Transit Act. The policy also mandates cities with more than 200,000 people to form a committee made up of managers and union-selected frontline employees of each transit agency to approve a Public Transportation Agency Safety Plan.

According to the suit, in the committee proceedings between JTA management and ATU 1197 employees, the union's representatives declined to approve an agreement on the safety plan and refused to enter an arbitration process required under their collective bargaining agreement.

By next year, the status of JTA's federal funding could hinge on the outcome of the case unless management and the union reach a resolution. The lawsuit adds another layer of scrutiny to the future of the U2C initiative at a time when its costs, ridership performance and vendor activity are already drawing renewed attention from city leaders and industry observers."

Full story: https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2025/12/08/jta-management-group-sues-union-after-it-opposes-s.html

[Charles Hunter]

This part of the article is somewhat concerning.

JTA claims within the complaint that ATU 1197 has failed to articulate specific issues making the U2C unsafe. The union did not immediately reply to a request for a comment by phone to its Jacksonville office.

Has JBJ read the union's complaint to test JTA's assertion?

[thelakelander]

^Good question.

[jaxlongtimer]

This part of the article is somewhat concerning.

JTA claims within the complaint that ATU 1197 has failed to articulate specific issues making the U2C unsafe. The union did not immediately reply to a request for a comment by phone to its Jacksonville office.

Has JBJ read the union's complaint to test JTA's assertion?

I would be the last to take JTA's side on most anything, but according to the article, the Union wants concessions unrelated to safety, it appears:

In order to sign off on the safety plan, the union demanded the fulfillment of certain conditions, including organizing the operating employees of the Neighborhood Autonomous Vehicle Innovation (NAVI) system and the St. Johns River Ferry, along with a $1-per-hour wage increase to ATU-represented employees for the duration of JTA's contract with BEEP, according to the suit.

I can understand if the Union thinks U2C is unsafe but the article says it will be operated by 3rd parties, not JTA Union employees.  As such, I am not sure what direct standing the Union has with respect to U2C's safety but certainly support any action that would bring an end to the wasteful U2C.  So, we will be watching with interest how this turns out  .

[Jankelope]

I just saw a Facebook post from some guy trying to run for mayor in 2027. It was him critiquing the new park and trying to seem like an unbiased 3rd party. He had obviously promoted the post to try to get it circulating. He was talking about how $30 million for Riverfront Plaza is wasteful and how the playground is unsafe, etc.

Meanwhile...if you REALLY wanted to go all in on talking about waste and fraud, go to JTA and U2C.

People also don't seem to realize how much of the $30 million price tag of the plaza is bulkhead, necessary infrasturcture etc. I'm pretty sure the actual playground, restrooms, cafe, etc are less than half of the pricetag.

I went there yesterday and was very impressed. The Christmas tree was out, they did a great job linking it to the exit of the performing arts center. I can't wait for phase 2.

Maybe we can use the U2C money to finish phase 2 and finish Emerald Trail.

[Ken_FSU]

I just saw a Facebook post from some guy trying to run for mayor in 2027. It was him critiquing the new park and trying to seem like an unbiased 3rd party. He had obviously promoted the post to try to get it circulating. He was talking about how $30 million for Riverfront Plaza is wasteful and how the playground is unsafe, etc.

Morons like this are why I stay off social media.

I think what's also lost to these park doomers is the fact that $56 million of this riverfront park work will be matched, dollar-for-dollar, by the Jags by way of the CBA in community investment.

[Charles Hunter]

This part of the article is somewhat concerning.

JTA claims within the complaint that ATU 1197 has failed to articulate specific issues making the U2C unsafe. The union did not immediately reply to a request for a comment by phone to its Jacksonville office.

Has JBJ read the union's complaint to test JTA's assertion?

I would be the last to take JTA's side on most anything, but according to the article, the Union wants concessions unrelated to safety, it appears:

In order to sign off on the safety plan, the union demanded the fulfillment of certain conditions, including organizing the operating employees of the Neighborhood Autonomous Vehicle Innovation (NAVI) system and the St. Johns River Ferry, along with a $1-per-hour wage increase to ATU-represented employees for the duration of JTA's contract with BEEP, according to the suit.

I can understand if the Union thinks U2C is unsafe but the article says it will be operated by 3rd parties, not JTA Union employees.  As such, I am not sure what direct standing the Union has with respect to U2C's safety but certainly support any action that would bring an end to the wasteful U2C.  So, we will be watching with interest how this turns out  .

jlt - I agree with your 'hate to agree with JTA' feeling, but it does seem the union is trying to leverage the required Safety Report for other issues. It would help public understanding if JBJ, or another news source, would take a look at the ATU complaint and report what it actually says.

At issue is the Public Transportation Agency Safety Plan that the Federal Transit Administration requires for continued access to federal grants.

JTA management argues in its complaint that Amalgamated Transit Union Local 1197's refusal to sign the updated plan places more than $100 million in federal dollars at risk.

It sounds to me like the threat is to the general Federal Transit Administration (FTA) funding for JTA, not specifically U2C funding. Especially, since, based on prior statements, JTA will not be seeking FTA funding for the U2C for the next phase.

[thelakelander]

^Yeah, that part initially had me confused. The FTA doesn't believe in the U2C enough to give it $20 million, much less $100 million.

[jaxlongtimer]

Waymo: 450,000 paid autonomous miles/week, well over 100 million fully autonomous miles. Expanding in most major cities at no cost to such cities. When: TODAY

JTA: ZERO free or paid autonomous miles/week, ZERO fully autonomous miles. Costing Jax $400 million+++++.  When: Who knows but no time soon.

How do you define "crazy stupid?"

Waymo crosses 450,000 weekly paid rides as Alphabet robotaxi unit widens lead on Tesla

Waymo, the robotaxi unit owned by Alphabet, has crossed 450,000 weekly paid rides, according to a letter from investor Tiger Global viewed by CNBC.

That's almost double the milestone it hit in April, when Waymo reported 250,000 paid robotaxi rides a week in the U.S.

"Waymo is the clear leader in autonomous driving, recently surpassing 450k trips per week with a product that is 10x safer than human drivers," Tiger Global wrote in a letter to investors announcing the launch of a new fund....

....This year, Waymo has also announced a slew of expansions, including its debut on freeways in three cities, and autonomous driving in cities including Miami, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and Orlando.

The latest milestone is also another sign that Waymo is continuing to push ahead of aspiring self-driving competitor Tesla, which has run limited pilots in Austin and operates a ride-hailing service in the Bay Area.

Tesla vehicles include human drivers or safety supervisors on board and are not driverless like Waymo's fleet vehicles.

According to Tesla's latest earnings call, executives said the company hit a quarter of a million miles with its fleet in Austin, and more than one million in the Bay Area. In July, Waymo announced 100 million total fully autonomous miles.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/08/waymo-paid-rides-robotaxi-tesla.html?&qsearchterm=waymo

[jaxoNOLE]

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/jta-ceo-reduced-fare-ridership-boost-jacksonville/77-41ade2f1-a424-4531-8e5d-e9db8c756896

NAVI is going back to free on 12/15 for the foreseeable future. I thought the terms of the federal funding for BSIC required fares to be charged?

"Prematurely, we started charging fares in that corridor, but as you can see, there's still a great deal of construction work and ridership development needed before we can start charging fares," said Ford.

Ford said ridership noticeably dropped after JTA started charging for the NAVI, so JTA will make the fare free until more destinations, like the Four Seasons and MOSH, develop along Bay Street.

[jaxlongtimer]

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/jta-ceo-reduced-fare-ridership-boost-jacksonville/77-41ade2f1-a424-4531-8e5d-e9db8c756896

NAVI is going back to free on 12/15 for the foreseeable future. I thought the terms of the federal funding for BSIC required fares to be charged?

"Prematurely, we started charging fares in that corridor, but as you can see, there's still a great deal of construction work and ridership development needed before we can start charging fares," said Ford.

Ford said ridership noticeably dropped after JTA started charging for the NAVI, so JTA will make the fare free until more destinations, like the Four Seasons and MOSH, develop along Bay Street.

Desperation move to pump up ridership numbers, which weren't great when it was free before.  So, funny that Ford cites a "noticeable drop."

I doubt MOSH and Four Seasons will change numbers much.  They shouldn't charge until it is truly autonomous, since that is the experience they are "selling," which likely equates to "for free" to eternity or when it finally gets shut down.

[thelakelander]

MOSH is years away, so don't count on it. People staying at the Four Seasons aren't the type that will be riding these vans. Low ridership is here to stay.

[tufsu1]

MOSH is years away, so don't count on it.

If ever

[jaxlongtimer]

Early Tesla investor concedes that Tesla is failing at robotaxis and that Waymo is the future.  I looked but didn't see JTA mentioned as a player... what a surprise.  .

Longtime Tesla investor Ross Gerber says 2026 will be a year of reckoning for Musk's car company

Ross Gerber, an early backer of Tesla, is worried about the future of Elon Musk's car company.

Gerber doesn't hold back about what he thinks is the EV maker's biggest issue: its autonomous driving technology. Failure to live up to expectations would be a blow to investors' bull thesis for Tesla, which is pegged in large part to the success of its self-driving cars....

...."The year that Elon took off from Tesla really cost Tesla a year," Gerber told Business Insider.

In that time, Tesla's chief competitor, Waymo, has continued to dominate the self-driving car market. Gerber attributes this to Musk's refusal to use LidAR technology in Tesla's vehicles, a remote sensing method that has helped Waymo increase the safety of its cars on the road.

"Waymo has expanded rapidly in our area," he said. "So Tesla has to accept, if they just throw a couple sensors on and improve their hardware system, they can solve full self-driving next month."

However, Gerber thinks that Musk will continue to favor the use of AI and cameras. And since Musk has staked much of Tesla's future on its self-driving car technology, he thinks this approach is about to start costing the company....

....Gerber added that he sees Google and Waymo's parent company, Alphabet, as the best stock to buy for gaining exposure to the self-driving car market, due to Waymo's edge over Tesla and Alphabet's resources.

His bullish thesis on Waymo centers on the company's strong presence in major US cities, which is expanding while Tesla has only just begun its rollout this year.

"Google has the money and they're not going to wait," Gerber said. "They know they can scale, so for Tesla to catch them, they would need this to work right away, basically, and then they need to start building infrastructure."....

https://www.aol.com/articles/longtime-tesla-investor-ross-gerber-101501274.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZXdzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANBSkRt_eJLqvu9qgwwEEDkLoDHQ0HppAhn3-Y9b0r3rnZBqtb5tIj63StBDv3ya5DiYjdCG731FVpxLIpE2c0FkSxtOReyVxtZj3MphwVLOYMfCW2BU7E4925Z_bjtXNoyInOlm-nwDA7rixDorhdXnxgMgzZbzEwII56eBS3m2