Midtown Tampa: What $500 million gets you in Tampa

[MusicMan]

"It was said that Lot J is estimated to attract an additional 2 to 3 million visitors to the sports district annually. To put that number in context with something that people can better understand locally, the 2009 DVI State of Downtown report estimated that the Landing attracted 4 to 4.5 million visitors annually between 2005 and 2009."

Over 10,000 visitors per day (average) to The Landing? If that was the case they never would have torn it down.

[thelakelander]

^The Landing getting torn down was a political move. It had nothing to do with the structure itself. In fact, downtown would already be vibrant if it were not for years of politics. When the politics are removed, things can move pretty quick when you have a market and demand for pedestrian oriented uses.

[CityLife]

Another interesting comparison is The Wharf in DC. TRULY a gamechanging development and something I think everyone in Jax could throw their support behind.

Phase 2 of the development is currently underway at a projected cost of $1.25 billion (presumably with higher costs in DC).

It includes:
255 apartments
96 condominiums
131 hotel rooms
223 boat slips at the Wharf Marina
1.5 acre park at the Marshall Park Landing
547,000 SF office space
95,000 SF retail space
2 underground garages with over 1,000 spaces total

The architecture is on a completely different level than what we've seen in the Lot J renderings.

https://phase2.wharfdc.com/gallery/

The total development (including Phase 1) has 3.2 million square feet of retail, residential, and entertainment along a 1 mile stretch of the Potomoc. Total cost 2.5 billion. Obviously there should be some efficiencies and economies of scale that can be assumed to bring total cost down a bit in a larger development, but it sure seems like they are getting a lot more bang for their buck there.

[CityLife]

Come join me on a little trip north to Atlanta. If anyone can read this post and the Tampa comparison and still not have some strong doubts about the estimated costs of Lot J, please send me a PM.  I'd love to sell you some beautiful spoil islands all around Florida.

-Phase 1 of Midtown Union has an estimated construction cost of $410 million. Construction is currently underway for a 26 story, 600k square foot office building, an 18 story residential building with 355 units, a 12-story 205-room hotel, and 30k square feet of retail space, and 1,909 parking spaces. Architecture is substantially better than Lot J.

https://www.coopercarry.com/projects/midtown-union/


-1105 West Peachtree Plaza in Midtown Atlanta has an estimated cost of $530 million for a 32-story, 675k square foot Class A office building, 178 room hotel, and 64 condo's. Insanely expensive architectural and structural costs.

http://1105westpeachtree.com/


-Next lets look at the redevelopment of Phipps Plaza at an estimated cost of $300 million. It includes a 150 room Nobu hotel with rooftop pool, and conference center and Nobu restaurant. As well as a 13-story 350k square foot office building and 3-story parking garage, along with a 90k square foot Life Time Fitness with rooftop pool and beach club. Architecture exceeds Lot J quality. Construction costs are more expensive being built on a raised podium.

https://19ecc05a05d7c6bd5508-fe453cfe00977a743e98d480a2f68fee.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/One%20Phipps%20Plaza%2010-15-20%20with%20web%20link%20E.pdf




-Norfolk Southern's new headquarters is estimated at $575 million. This includes 750k square foot of class A office space in two towers. Architecture is on a completely different level than Lot J

https://atlanta.curbed.com/2019/3/27/18283406/norfolk-southerns-hq-midtown-cousins-properties


-The Interlock Atlanta is a $450 million mixed-use complex with 200k square feet of office, 105k square feet of retail, 145 room hotel, and 367 multi-family units.

https://theinterlockatl.com/property

[RiversideRambler]

^Midtown Tampa is a market rate project. The developer did not request financial incentives from what we understand. However, that market and specifically, the Midtown Tampa location, is in a much more advantageous position for what's proposed, than the Lot J site.

What is the surrounding area like for Midtown Tampa compared to Lot J? Looking at the aerial shots without any context, it seems like an odd area for the development

[thelakelander]

It's in a much better location actually. It's right between Westshore and Downtown Tampa at I-275 and Dale Mabry. Roughly a little over a mile south of Raymond James Stadium.

[marcuscnelson]

I feel like I've been hit over the head with these comparisons.

My question is, so what do we do? What can we do?

[thelakelander]

Likely too late but building this stuff on a non contaminated parking lot at the stadium would immediately drop project infrastructure costs in the range of $50 to $100 million and speed the completion date up by three years. Ask yourself, would you be more supportive if the project was a $350 million one with the public ask being 50% of that number, while getting the exact same thing they've proposed completed in 2023 as opposed to 2026 or 2027? Much of this reeks of the ability to not master plan in a professional manner. Understand the history of what came before today, how those contamination issues were addressed and work around them. There's a sea of asphalt surrounding the stadium. Why do we force ourselves to the most contaminated parking lot? Anyway, shifting Lot J's proposal to a different lot would likely require council to vote this particular deal down. I seriously don't think majority of council has the courage to do so, even if they know we're getting the shaft.